# Why are Republicans pushing to extend the Bush tax cuts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945 "2010-07-25T14:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/301 "2010-07-29T04:35:22Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > > [@yorick73](#): > > > > A right is not something that can be handed to you by your government. By the same token, health care, which was not available to every american, is still not a right. If the courts decide that the HCR is unconstitutional then have your rights been violated? Rights do not emanate from the government. Negative rights are freedom FROM government. The second ammendment does not dictate that the government MUST provide you with a gun…you are free to go get one. Same goes for education and health care. > > You have a very particular ideological definition of rights. Not a standard or universal one. The concept of negative rights is unusual? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/302 "2010-07-29T05:12:29Z")
The poor pay state taxes, local taxes, sales tax, property taxes,gas taxes, alcohol taxes, cigarette taxes, licences and fees . The poor do not get away with out contributing. There is such a slamming of the poor on this board . ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/303 "2010-07-29T15:08:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The poor pay state taxes, local taxes, sales tax, property taxes,gas taxes, alcohol taxes, cigarette taxes, licences and fees . The poor do not get away with out contributing. There is such a slamming of the poor on this board . Most of those are state or city taxes. The federal portion of the gas tax goes to the roads on which we drive. As for the cigarette and alcohol tax I have no idea how that money is earmarked. I assume the cig tax is for education and the increase cost of care for those who smoke. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/304 "2010-07-29T16:30:54Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Medicare and Social Security are benefits that we all get back…assuming we live long enough. That money is, in theory, dedicated for those benefits. It can be ignored for the purposes of this discussion. So the people who pay medicare and social security taxes do not get to elect the folks who decide on social security and medicare benefits? It is relatively clear that medicare and social security benefits will have to be adjusted sometime in the near future, should that adjustment be determined by folks who were elected by the top half of society? I guess that’s ONE way to get rid of them altogether but still… > [@yorick73](#): > > A right is not something that can be handed to you by your government. By the same token, health care, which was not available to every american, is still not a right. If the courts decide that the HCR is unconstitutional then have your rights been violated? Rights do not emanate from the government. Negative rights are freedom FROM government. The second ammendment does not dictate that the government MUST provide you with a gun…you are free to go get one. Same goes for education and health care. Really? Then what is the source of rights? I’m not saying that all rights emanate from the government but it is a pretty narrow definition of rights you have there. Rights are more than the freedom from interference by government. “you have a right to an attorney, if you cannot afford one, one will be provided to you” BY THE GOVERNMENT “you have a right to vote” and the government will protect that right for you. “you have a right to be secure in your person and possessions” You are not being protected FROM the government, you are being protected BY the government “you have a right to a public education” and government will collect money from the community to pay for it. and coming soon, “you have a right to health care” These rights can be taken away by the government (for example the right to a trial was taken away from an American citizen during the Bush years) and sometimes they SHOULD be taken away (like the right to own slaves). > [@foolsguinea](#): > > Are you saying that you have been misunderstood or that you have been doped? I don’t know what “doped” means. I guess I was just wrong. [/QUOTE] I thought the term “doped” meant that ignorance has been successfully fought. I get doped all the time when I wade into a debate and get convinced through the process that my original position was incorrect. > [@yorick73](#): > > If our government decided against the will of the people to extract wealth from some to give to others, we would vote the bums out of office in short order…kinda like what’s going to happen in November. You do realize that whatever happens in November is a referendum on the economy not the Democratic policies right? > [@gonzomax](#): > > There is such a slamming of the poor on this board . Well then they should stop being so poor. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/305 "2010-07-29T16:33:54Z")
Heck, why stop with voting, why not just sell citizenship to the highest bidder. Say, hundred thousand for a green card, couple million for outright citizenship? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/306 "2010-07-29T16:45:15Z")
This ‘who should be allowed to vote’ argument is a funny justification for giving rich people a new tax cut. Is it the intention of the GOP that the rich should be entirely disenfranchised, along with everybody else? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/307 "2010-07-29T17:03:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So the people who pay medicare and social security taxes do not get to elect the folks who decide on social security and medicare benefits? It is relatively clear that medicare and social security benefits will have to be adjusted sometime in the near future, should that adjustment be determined by folks who were elected by the top half of society? I guess that’s ONE way to get rid of them altogether but still… I’ve already stated that taking away voting rights is not a feasable option. Nonetheless, as I stated, we do not vote on individual spending bills as citizens. If we did then it would make sense that everyone who contributes to SS and medicare should have a say. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Really? Then what is the source of rights? I’m not saying that all rights emanate from the government but it is a pretty narrow definition of rights you have there. Rights are more than the freedom from interference by government. > > “you have a right to an attorney, if you cannot afford one, one will be provided to you” BY THE GOVERNMENT The attorney is provided to protect you FROM the government. You have no right to an attorney…just the right to a fair trial. Attorney is provided to protect you from abuse from your government. Ask anyone who has been sued if they have been given an attorney. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > “you have a right to vote” and the government will protect that right for you. No, voting is a privelege that can be taken away. Ask felons in any number of states. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > “you have a right to be secure in your person and possessions” You are not being protected FROM the government, you are being protected BY the government You need to bone up on your knowledge of amendments. The 4th amendment clearly is to protect people FROM their government. Here…I’ll quote it for ya: > [@4th amendment](#): > > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > “you have a right to a public education” and government will collect money from the community to pay for it. > and coming soon, > > “you have a right to health care” No, you do not. I’ve already covered both of these. You cannot force a person to work for another. This is not a right but slavery. If people CHOOSE not to provide you with what you belive is a right, can the government force them to do the work at gunpoint? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > These rights can be taken away by the government (for example the right to a trial was taken away from an American citizen during the Bush years) and sometimes they SHOULD be taken away (like the right to own slaves). There was no right to own slaves. There was a right to own property and, unfortunately, the term “property” was bastardized. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You do realize that whatever happens in November is a referendum on the economy not the Democratic policies right? You are free to believe whatever you wish. That is your RIGHT. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/308 "2010-07-29T19:09:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Heck, why stop with voting, why not just sell citizenship to the highest bidder. Say, hundred thousand for a green card, couple million for outright citizenship? Five million, if they want to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/309 "2010-07-30T14:05:25Z")
[Senate Republicans on Thursday filibustered a bill to aid small businesses with expanded loan programs and tax breaks](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/us/politics/30cong.html?_r=1&hpw) > [@](#): > > Republican leaders filibustered after fighting for days with Democrats over the number of amendments they would be able to offer. A last-ditch offer by Democrats to allow three was refused by the Republican leader > … > The three Republican amendments that Democrats seemed open to debating would eliminate a provision in the new health care law requiring businesses to file 1099 forms reporting when they buy more than $600 in goods from other businesses, extend a tax credit for biodiesel fuel and extend a credit for research and development. > > Republicans had also wanted amendments on other topics, including the estate tax, nuclear loan guarantees, border security and the expiring Bush tax cuts. Some question the GOP’s motives here: > [@](#): > > in a procedural blockade that underscored how fiercely determined the party’s leaders are to deny Democrats any further legislative accomplishments ahead of November’s midterm elections. Have the ever met a tax cut they didn’t like before? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/310 "2010-07-30T16:26:38Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The poor pay state taxes, local taxes, sales tax, property taxes,gas taxes, alcohol taxes, cigarette taxes, licences and fees . The poor do not get away with out contributing. There is such a slamming of the poor on this board . If the poor receive more in the way of subsidies then taxes paid then who is paying the tax? ---
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/311 "2010-07-30T16:33:36Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > **Despite persistent evidence to the contrary** , it’s hard to believe that they are either that stupid or that evil. I don’t suppose you’d be willing to supply specific examples of societies that have successfully taxed themselves into prosperity? (I couldn’t help but notice you mentioned “persistent evidence to the contrary” but failed to cite _any_ of said evidence.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/312 "2010-07-30T18:32:21Z")
I believe friend **Dan** is referring to the redundant evidence of stupidity and/or malice. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/313 "2010-07-30T18:35:12Z")
> [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](#): > > I don’t suppose you’d be willing to supply specific examples of societies that have successfully taxed themselves into prosperity? Sure - America, circa 1950. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/314 "2010-07-30T21:03:19Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > And they hurt the economy for everyone. Some just felt the associated pain more acutely than others. This gets to why I don’t think that an “equal pain” rationale for tax policy makes much sense. If you are benefitting way more than I am from the present system, you have a much greater interest in perpetuating it, don’t you? I don’t have a problem with the taxes I pay, because I want to help America continue to survive. However, it doesn’t make sense that my “pain” should be the same as Bill Gates; my “pleasure” sure hasn’t been. That’s such a weird way of looking at things to me. “The present system” that allows Gates to make a lot is dependent I suppose on having a functioning democracy and relatively free market, which are protected by the military, but “the present system” is not the same thing as the federal bureaucracy. How has the sudden existence of 1690 Department of Transportation employees making over $170k (from one employee a couple of years ago) [http://current.com/159284c](http://current.com/159284c) enabled Gates to make money? It hasn’t, the federal government doesn’t create or run the markets, at best it protects them, and history shows that they could be protected well enough for Gates to do well with a smaller federal government. Your pleasure hasn’t been as great as Gates’s, nor has mine, because, frankly, Gates did a better job than you or I did of convincing people to buy his wares at a premium price. But it’s not as though money rained down upon him from some federal raincloud that he’s now obliged to reimburse. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/315 "2010-07-30T21:20:34Z")
No, his money rained down on him, to a considerable degree, by chicanery, cunning, and ruthless competition. To be fair, he has exhibited a remarkable humanity since he got married, which demonstrates the healing power of nookie, Goddess be praised. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/316 "2010-07-30T22:00:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No, his money rained down on him, to a considerable degree, by chicanery, cunning, and ruthless competition. I mean (putting aside chicanery, where I’m just not aware of the details of what you’re characterizing/referring to – having his mom use her influence? Or something else?), yeah, but isn’t that kind of what we signed up for with the market economy? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/317 "2010-07-30T23:45:39Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > > [@elucidator](#): > > > > No, his money rained down on him, to a considerable degree, by chicanery, cunning, and ruthless competition. > > I mean (putting aside chicanery, where I’m just not aware of the details of what you’re characterizing/referring to – having his mom use her influence? Or something else?), yeah, but isn’t that kind of what we signed up for with the market economy? Read one of the books that came out at the time of the Microsoft antitrust trial if you want some examples of chicanery. [Here](http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/microsoftintel_capable_collusion.html) is another example, post-Bill and perhaps more the fault of Intel. (Read the Dell settlement articles lately?) ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/318 "2010-07-31T00:16:12Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Do they really believe in Laffer Curve/supply side economics and think that it will actually raise revenue? Are they in the pocket of the rich? Do they just see it as a way to rile up the base so they can get re-elected and gain back seats? > > Despite persistent evidence to the contrary, it’s hard to believe that they are either that stupid or that evil. Most are that stupid. The others are evil. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/319 "2010-07-31T05:07:16Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > How has the sudden existence of 1690 Department of Transportation employees making over $170k (from one employee a couple of years ago) [http://current.com/159284c](http://current.com/159284c) enabled Gates to make money? It hasn’t, the federal government doesn’t create or run the markets, at best it protects them, and history shows that they could be protected well enough for Gates to do well with a smaller federal government. We’ve already had a discussion in this thread about rights; whether they are provided by the government or whether they exist naturally and must be protected _from_ the government. I don’t think a free marketplace is a right. While I won’t attempt to justify the salaries of DoT employees, consider things like patents and trademarks. Where would Microsoft be without them? How often has the government flexed its diplomatic muscles by threatening trade sanctions against countries that turn a blind eye to pirated software? Upthread, **Magiver** questioned whether the poor receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes. The government has spent millions protecting the interests of Microsoft, which has enabled Bill Gates to make billions. If he benefits more than most, let him pay more than most. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/320 "2010-07-31T05:18:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > The poor pay state taxes, local taxes, sales tax, property taxes,gas taxes, alcohol taxes, cigarette taxes, licences and fees . The poor do not get away with out contributing. There is such a slamming of the poor on this board . > > If the poor receive more in the way of subsidies then taxes paid then who is paying the tax? That fantasy will require a cite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945.md?page=17)