# Why are Republicans pushing to extend the Bush tax cuts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945 "2010-07-25T14:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/81 "2010-07-25T21:16:08Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > > Would you be happier if their were a floor to the federal income tax (which you seem to confuse with ‘tax’)? Say, 2% on the poor bastards? > > The debate here is over the federal income tax (check the OP title, Bush didn’t have the power to cut anything other than federal taxes). That is why I discuss the federal income tax. I’m not confusing anything. > > I would have a very narrow (very low) band of zero percent. And yes, I’d be happy if someone working but earning very little paid as much as 2%. The difference between nothing and something is significant. Sounds palatable to me. But I supported health care and voted Obama too, go figure. You’d have to deal with the issue of depriving the poor bastards of their tax exemptions. Don’t be surprised when you are deprived of some of yours. ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/82 "2010-07-25T21:21:46Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > What rights are you referring to? The right to health care? No such thing. The right to education? No such thing. So, in your mind, these perceived rights trump the actual rights we have. Everything you wrote may make people feel better about taking what they did not earn and giving it to others but it’s really a load of BS. Just wondering because I honestly cannot think of it right now - from where do we derive our right to property? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/83 "2010-07-25T21:26:24Z")
> [@kingbighair](#): > > > [@yorick73](#): > > > > What rights are you referring to? The right to health care? No such thing. The right to education? No such thing. So, in your mind, these perceived rights trump the actual rights we have. Everything you wrote may make people feel better about taking what they did not earn and giving it to others but it’s really a load of BS. > > Just wondering because I honestly cannot think of it right now - from where do we derive our right to property? The Constitution? No. Wait! It’s Kant, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/84 "2010-07-25T21:27:11Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Because some conservatives believe that the only way to reduce the size of the government is to reduce taxes first, and that the government will then respond by cutting programs: This. Republicans want to ensure that Federal Government fails. Remember “[The Fallacy That Government Creates Jobs](http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9825)”, and all that other conservative bullshit. The fact is that state governments are more sensitive to corruption by pressure groups, so the GOP likes them better than a big powerful fed. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/85 "2010-07-25T21:27:26Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Don’t be surprised when you are deprived of some of yours. I won’t because been there, done that. Phase-out of itemized deductions, and AMT, mean that lots of high earners are effectively paying well over the 35% rate that I’ve been positing as the top bracket now. ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/86 "2010-07-25T21:33:07Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > > [@yorick73](#): > > > > > > What rights are you referring to? The right to health care? No such thing. The right to education? No such thing. So, in your mind, these perceived rights trump the actual rights we have. Everything you wrote may make people feel better about taking what they did not earn and giving it to others but it’s really a load of BS. > > > > Just wondering because I honestly cannot think of it right now - from where do we derive our right to property? > > The Constitution? > > No. Wait! It’s Kant, isn’t it? The Constitution says you must be compensated for your property from a government takings and says the government may not take your property without due process. It says nothing about the right to property itself. It seems as long as the government follows these criteria, you have no right to property. Or am I way off base here? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/87 "2010-07-25T21:33:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Inherited wealth is earned at some point. The money has already been taxed and is a gift…not an income for a provided service. Why should a person be taxed for giving something away. Should the $10 bill you put in your nephew’s birthday card be taxable income for the tyke? All wealth is earned at some point, indeed, at many points. People object to the inheritance tax on the ground that it’s “double dipping”, that that money’s already been taxed. But every dollar you’ve ever had has already been taxed hundreds or thousands of times. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/88 "2010-07-25T22:11:31Z")
> [@kingbighair](#): > > Or am I way off base here? Right. Life, liberty and the pursuit of property. And I have the right to own a gun- that’s property, no? And the commerce clause- how is commerce possible without property? Of course IANA constitutional law professor. I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/89 "2010-07-25T22:38:35Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > > [@elucidator](#): > > > > Our fellow Americans, are they our people? Or not? And if they are not our people, if they do not have good reason to rely on our generosity and good will, who’s people are they? > > > > “Its not a crime to be poor in America, but it may as well be.” > > > > - Will Rogers > > What rights are you referring to? The right to health care? No such thing. The right to education? No such thing. So, in your mind, these perceived rights trump the actual rights we have. Everything you wrote may make people feel better about taking what they did not earn and giving it to others but it’s really a load of BS. Those rights are just as self evident as free speech is. Would you rather Americans children face a diminished future just for not having for the fore-sight to fall out of a rich vagina? Are poor kids less deserving of education? Is that your point? Would you rather Americans face death, unnecessary agony, or crippling condition just for losing their jobs in an economic down turn? How about the elderly choosing between heart medication, food, or heat? **Huerta88** : > [@](#): > > Taking money from people coercively and without right is theft. Period. Theft is wrong. Cf. Seventh Commandment. > [@Mathew 22 NIV](#): > > 15Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?” > > 18But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20and he asked them, “Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?” > > 21"Caesar’s," they replied. > Then he said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” > > 22When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away. Are you claiming Jesus prompted violating the 10 commandments? Last I checked American money has pictures of American things and says United States on it. Is it the Republican party’s, the party that claims to be the religious right, position that Jesus promoted theft? I am not Christian but I think “Jesus would tell it to your face: ‘Man, you’re some kinda sinner’” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/90 "2010-07-25T23:10:04Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The Constitution? > > No. Wait! It’s Kant, isn’t it? Locke. From whom parts of the DofI are derived. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/91 "2010-07-25T23:16:29Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > > [@jsgoddess](#): > > > > > [@yorick73](#): > > > > > > > [@jsgoddess](#): > > > > > > > > I’m saying “Oh please” because it’s bullshit that you aren’t wanting to get your desired outcome by kicking some people out of the voting pool. > > > > > > > > And he makes more money than I do and he pays no taxes, yet whines about how high taxes are. Ridiculous. > > > > > > Are you REALLY in favor of those who contribute nothing to funding our government deciding how much more of your money they should take? Just think about that for a minute. Is there ANY disincentive for them to take increasing amounts of your labor for their benefit? Are you at least somewhat concerned about this? > > > > Like I already said, my brother who pays no federal income tax votes for Republicans and whines about how high taxes are. Y’all have your share of free-riders, don’t you worry. > > I asked a fair question and you refuse to answer it. I don’t care how people who are paying into the system decide to vote. They have the right to demand that the government take even more of their money if that is their desire. My problem is people who contribute nothing deciding how much comes out of my check. > > As an aside, people who pay no taxes yet complain about high taxes are either convinced they are on their way up the earnings ladder, see the benefits of their employers not being taxed so much that it affects their job, or are idiots. I want all Americans to vote, and I hope they do. I don’t care if they are rich or poor, pay a ton of taxes or none at all (though the latter is like a unicorn), are smart or stupid, informed or ignorant. I want them all to vote. Even my ridiculous brother. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/92 "2010-07-25T23:21:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > …Do you advocate stripping every billionaire of everything over say, one billion dollars? Or $500 million. Why or why not? > > Not sure. Depends, I suppose. I am surely inclined to treat Bill Gates more generously, seeing as he has put so much effort and money into good and worthy causes, most especially the effort to eradicate malaria. Not so much for the Koch Brothers, or Richard Mellon Scaife, who suck in ways numberless to man. > > I’m arguing for the principles, the negotiations will probably be handled by somebody better skilled. I suck at negotiation. Well, you might think you are arguing for principle, but your stance isn’t principled at all. A person is entitled to the fruits of his labor and of his mind. You have to be willing to treat Gates and the others the same. That is the beginning of a principled stance. If, in fact, the argument for not taxing those with low incomes, say $20K, or taxing them less than someone who makes 200k is that the person makes 200k doesn’t feel it as much, then it seems logical to me to argue that a multi-billionaire be taxed until he has a mere billion. He won’t feel that at all. He still gets to keep his multiples homes, staff, and private plane and provide for his family’s future. I don’t think the metric should be pain. Everyone should contribute. If someone who make 20k can’t pay something in taxes, let him contribute through labor of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/93 "2010-07-25T23:24:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If someone who make 20k can’t pay something in taxes, let him contribute through labor of some sort. Why not just kill them? But seriously, don’t you folks know that everyone who works pays SS and Medicaire? In most states people pay sales tax and excise taxes as well. For the majority of Americans payroll taxes exceeds the amount they pay in income tax. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/94 "2010-07-25T23:25:52Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > > [@yorick73](#): > > > > > [@jsgoddess](#): > > > > > > > [@yorick73](#): > > > > > > > > > [@jsgoddess](#): > > > > > > > > > > I’m saying “Oh please” because it’s bullshit that you aren’t wanting to get your desired outcome by kicking some people out of the voting pool. > > > > > > > > > > And he makes more money than I do and he pays no taxes, yet whines about how high taxes are. Ridiculous. > > > > > > > > Are you REALLY in favor of those who contribute nothing to funding our government deciding how much more of your money they should take? Just think about that for a minute. Is there ANY disincentive for them to take increasing amounts of your labor for their benefit? Are you at least somewhat concerned about this? > > > > > > Like I already said, my brother who pays no federal income tax votes for Republicans and whines about how high taxes are. Y’all have your share of free-riders, don’t you worry. > > > > I asked a fair question and you refuse to answer it. I don’t care how people who are paying into the system decide to vote. They have the right to demand that the government take even more of their money if that is their desire. My problem is people who contribute nothing deciding how much comes out of my check. > > > > As an aside, people who pay no taxes yet complain about high taxes are either convinced they are on their way up the earnings ladder, see the benefits of their employers not being taxed so much that it affects their job, or are idiots. > > I want all Americans to vote, and I hope they do. I don’t care if they are rich or poor, pay a ton of taxes or none at all (though the latter is like a unicorn), are smart or stupid, informed or ignorant. I want them all to vote. > > Even my ridiculous brother. But don’t you see a problem with people who do not have to pay more in taxes voting to raise taxes, so they can receive more in benefits? It’s like a poker game in which I can raise the bet, but not actually have to put any money in the pot. Why not just keep raising taxes, if the only effect it can have on me is that I receive more benefits? And the larger the percent of people who will not be hurt be an increase in taxes, the the worse it is. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/95 "2010-07-25T23:25:52Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > > [@jsgoddess](#): > > > > I’m saying “Oh please” because it’s bullshit that you aren’t wanting to get your desired outcome by kicking some people out of the voting pool. > > > > And he makes more money than I do and he pays no taxes, yet whines about how high taxes are. Ridiculous. > > Are you REALLY in favor of those who contribute nothing to funding our government deciding how much more of your money they should take? Just think about that for a minute. Is there ANY disincentive for them to take increasing amounts of your labor for their benefit? Are you at least somewhat concerned about this? Fuck yes. Government by the people, for the people. Not government by the rich for the rich. You’re trying to turn the poor into second class citizens. What you’re trying to do is make this Us Vs Them. Fuck that, and you can get bent for pushing that. **jsgoddess** ’s brother sounds like a complete piece of work. But you know what? He’s American. He deserves to have a say in the government. Countless Americans have given their blood, given their sanity, and given their life so that liberty could be extended to all Americans. From the Revolutionary war, to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. American history is a story of how liberty came to be for all. If assistance to the poor grows too decedent then the rest of the country can say so, but basic food, shelter, medical care, and education are things everyone needs to pursue happiness. Trust me on this, living pay check to pay check is not a happy state to be in and people work to get out of it if they can, if they know how. Survival is not enough, basic food is not enough, basic shelter is not enough, health is not enough. Make those things available no matter what and peopled will still work for more. But take them away, make them second class citizens who can’t vote, to more easily reduce them to beggars, and fighting to end the stomach growls will be all they know to do. Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs is such a a basic thing we all learn in school, but so many people seem to forget it. The ultimate carrot isn’t food but self actualization. All I ask is you consider what felt the best. A meal when you weren’t too hungry, or a meal when you were famished? If food is so gratifying when you have little how can someone’s push to better themselves and contribute to society compete with the growls of their own stomach? Likewise if their stomach is full how can it hope to compete with their needs to find more in life? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/96 "2010-07-25T23:27:02Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > If someone who make 20k can’t pay something in taxes, let him contribute through labor of some sort. > > Why not just kill them? Where the fuck did that come from? And what is it supposed to mean? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/97 "2010-07-25T23:35:58Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Fuck yes. Government by the people, for the people. Not government by the rich for the rich. You’re trying to turn the poor into second class citizens. They are a sort of second class citizen. They are not contributing their fair share to the common good. I’d thing they welcome the opportunity to contribute. I know I would. I see nothing wrong with having able-bodeied people contribute in order to vote. If you can’t right a check, you can paint bleachers, sweep the sidewalk, or clean up a beach. If you don’t care if you vote, no problem, but if you do want to vote, just pay into the system. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/98 "2010-07-25T23:47:36Z")
Wow, so the poor are second class citizens? Maybe we should institute some sort of caste system here in America then. Sort of keep them out of sight of the real citizens? What about an 18 year old H.S. student that just registered to vote and hasn’t started their career yet, should they have to perform community service just to be able to exercise their right to vote as well? What about someone that is disabled and can’t earn enough income to qualify for taxation, does that disability eliminate their right to vote as well? There seems to be some pretty cavalier attitudes here about taking away voting rights. Pretty surprising to me seeing as how far we’ve come from the original standards of only white male land owners being able to vote. I would think the more access to voting the better since this is supposed to be the land of equal opportunity and all. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/99 "2010-07-25T23:52:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If you can’t right a check, you can paint bleachers, sweep the sidewalk, or clean up a beach. And think of the government jobs that would create, monitoring and adminstering public service for millions of poor people who want to vote! Sounds like we might need another cabinet department! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/100 "2010-07-25T23:53:12Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > There seems to be some pretty cavalier attitudes here about taking away voting rights. Pretty surprising to me seeing as how far we’ve come from the original standards of only white male land owners being able to vote. I would think the more access to voting the better since this is supposed to be the land of equal opportunity and all. We have come a long way, which is why I’m never surprised when people want to revert. The tradition of this country isn’t equality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945.md?page=6)