# Why are Republicans so obtuse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412 "2010-02-02T18:04:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/181 "2010-02-05T15:46:29Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Those founding fathers and their silly word games. I say we take this to the next level and discuss the silly word games inherrent in the 2nd amendment next. Hell, we can work our way right through the Bill of Rights and see what kind of shit we can stir. I’m not talking about the founding fathers. I’m talking about the left’s bizarre and deliberate misinterpretation of the first amendment. The left wants to de-Christianize America, and it would obviously be helpful if they can convince as many people as possible (including themselves) that America is somehow not really Christian. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/182 "2010-02-05T15:47:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, according to you, the majority is all-important, right? That would make the US a female nation. A nationette, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/183 "2010-02-05T15:48:03Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I’m not talking about the founding fathers. I’m talking about the left’s bizarre and deliberate misinterpretation of the first amendment. The left wants to de-Christianize America, and it would obviously be helpful if they can convince as many people as possible (including themselves) that America is somehow not really Christian. You should be talking about the found fathers, because they’re the ones who stated specifically that the US is \*not \*a Christian nation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/184 "2010-02-05T15:49:26Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > That’s a whole 'nother thread. Don’t you people ever get tired of equating everything with race? In any case, as the overwhelmingly dominant cultural influence on the United States is European and most Americans are white, it is entirely reasonable to speak of the U.S. as a white nation. If you want to debate that, start another thread No, it’s the same debate. I’ll leave it in this thread. One demographic is the same as another. There are slightly more men than women in the US, so I guess that makes it a “male nation,” the NBA is a “black league,” and the world, as a whole, is Chinese in ethnicity. > [@](#): > > Putting words in “quotations” to make it “seem” as if those “words” are somehow “meaningless” or are “somehow” being “misused” is a very tiresome and sophomoric debating trick. I put those words in quotes because the semantic meaning of those words is what’s being discussed. I’m doing it for clarity, and it’s entirely appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/185 "2010-02-05T15:50:52Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I’m not talking about the founding fathers. I’m talking about the left’s bizarre and deliberate misinterpretation of the first amendment. The left wants to de-Christianize America, and it would obviously be helpful if they can convince as many people as possible (including themselves) that America is somehow not really Christian. Bizarre and deliberate misinterpretation of the first amendment, eh? [QUOTE=The Founding Fathers] Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Obviously, they won’t have to establish any religion because we’ve already got one. We’re a Christian nation. Clear? Cool. [/QUOTE] Huh. You know, I never noticed that bit before. [QUOTE=Dio] No, it’s the same debate. I’ll leave it in this thread. One demographic is the same as another. There are slightly more men than women in the US, so I guess that makes it a “male nation,” the NBA is a “black league,” and the world, as a whole, is Chinese in ethnicity. [/QUOTE] I don’t think that last one quite works, 'cause the Chinese are a plurality rather than an absolute majority. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/186 "2010-02-05T15:50:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, according to you, the majority is all-important, right? Not all important, but certainly critical. It’s such a hoot. Lefties claim to be the protectors of the people, but they don’t seem to actually like the people very much. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/187 "2010-02-05T15:51:13Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > The state is not the whole of America, but obviously statists would fail to comprehend that. The state is specifically what the word “nation” refers to. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/188 "2010-02-05T15:52:10Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You should be talking about the found fathers, because they’re the ones who stated specifically that the US is \*not \*a Christian nation. No, they did not. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/189 "2010-02-05T15:54:33Z")
Yes, they did too. Nyeah, nyeah. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/190 "2010-02-05T15:55:54Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I’m not talking about the founding fathers. I’m talking about the left’s bizarre and deliberate misinterpretation of the first amendment. The left wants to de-Christianize America, and it would obviously be helpful if they can convince as many people as possible (including themselves) that America is somehow not really Christian. The overwhelming majority of the American political left IS Christian, which means, under your own rubric, that the left is a Christian wing (and that the Democrats are a “Christian party”). The allegation that the left wants to “de-Christianize America” is too asinine to really merit even this much engagement, but what the hell…cite? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/191 "2010-02-05T15:57:38Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > That’s a whole 'nother thread. Don’t you people ever get tired of equating everything with race? In any case, as the overwhelmingly dominant cultural influence on the United States is European and most Americans are white, it is entirely reasonable to speak of the U.S. as a white nation. But when you think of things that are “American”, they seem to be largely from black culture: gospel, jazz, blues, hip-hop, rock and roll, and BBQ. A huge portion of American slang is from the black culture and American black culture also influences fashion trends around the world. America’s chief sports export, basketball, is dominated by blacks. To a large degree, what makes America unique is black culture. . The issue of slavery also had a profound affect on how America set up it’s political institutions: the “great compromise” was an effort to provide balance between free and slave states. The Civil War, fought over the status of blacks, had more casualties than WW1, WWII, and Vietnam combined, and that doesn’t even take into account the per-capita death rate. The expansion of the role of the Supreme Court and the weakening of Federalism are to a large degree a result of the failure of the post-Reconstruction state governments to provide basic rights to blacks. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/192 "2010-02-05T15:58:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, it’s the same debate. I’ll leave it in this thread. One demographic is the same as another. There are slightly more men than women in the US, so I guess that makes it a “male nation,” the NBA is a “black league,” and the world, as a whole, is Chinese in ethnicity. And I note that some people in America aren’t citizens, so I guess that means America isn’t an American nation. Careful with that straw man, it might be a fire hazard. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I put those words in quotes because the semantic meaning of those words is what’s being discussed. I’m doing it for clarity, and it’s entirely appropriate. Yeah, you’re just doing it for clarity. :rolleyes: You can always tell when a leftie knows he doesn’t have a valid point–he wants to argue about semantics. If patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, semantics is the first. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/193 "2010-02-05T16:02:29Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I’m not talking about the founding fathers. I’m talking about the left’s bizarre and deliberate misinterpretation of the first amendment. The left wants to de-Christianize America, and it would obviously be helpful if they can convince as many people as possible (including themselves) that America is somehow not really Christian. The irony, of course, being that the separation of church and state gas resulted in the US being the most religious industrialized country. Countries that retained a link between church and state, like the UK, are much less religious. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/194 "2010-02-05T16:02:54Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > No, they did not. “..the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…” -John Adams Thomas Jefferson said a lot worse. There’s also the First Amendment, of course, which explicitly declares that the United States shall have no state religion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/195 "2010-02-05T16:06:06Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > And I note that some people in America aren’t citizens, so I guess that means America isn’t an American nation. Careful with that straw man, it might be a fire hazard. The “nation” is American by definition. The population is only majority American. ] > [@](#): > > Yeah, you’re just doing it for clarity. :rolleyes: You can always tell when a leftie knows he doesn’t have a valid point–he wants to argue about semantics. > > If patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, semantics is the first. There is no content in this portion of your post. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/196 "2010-02-05T16:06:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The state is specifically what the word “nation” refers to. Horese shit. A nation is not simply the state. Here we have yet another sophomoric debating tactic known as winning by definition, in which you arbitrarily re-define some critical term to suit yourself and then insist that your definition is the only acceptable one. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/197 "2010-02-05T16:08:44Z")
Alright, then Mr. Webster, what else is it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/198 "2010-02-05T16:11:36Z")
The first definition of “nation” is “state,” and any definition has to _include_ the state, even if it’s used more holistically to encompass the population. You can’t divorce the word “nation” from the state. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/199 "2010-02-05T16:12:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Alright, then Mr. Webster, what else is it? When conservatives use the term they mean a group of individuals united by their hatred of another group. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/200 "2010-02-05T16:13:38Z")
Incidentally, it’s STILL bullshit to try to define even a population by a majority demographic, as has been shown repeatedly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412.md?page=11)