# Why are Republicans so obtuse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412 "2010-02-02T18:04:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/201 "2010-02-05T16:13:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > “..the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…” > -John Adams > Thomas Jefferson said a lot worse. > There’s also the First Amendment, of course, which explicitly declares that the United States shall have no state religion. The government is not the whole of the nation. The fact that the state is not explicitly Christian does not mean that the nation is not Christian. Your misreading of the first amendment is nothing short of bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/202 "2010-02-05T16:20:39Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > The government is not the whole of the nation. The fact that the state is not explicitly Christian does not mean that the nation is not Christian. Your misreading of the first amendment is nothing short of bizarre. The state is not just the government; it’s a synonym for nation. In any case, his “misreading” of the first amendment is hardly bizarre; it’s standard jurisprudence. Were all our Supreme Court Justices members of the leftist conspiracy to kick Christ out of America? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/203 "2010-02-05T16:21:33Z")
The nation is the state. There is no nation without the state. It’s also flatly inaccurate even to characterize the entire population of the US as being demographically equivalent to a demographic majority. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/204 "2010-02-05T16:24:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The first definition of “nation” is “state,” and any definition has to _include_ the state, even if it’s used more holistically to encompass the population. You can’t divorce the word “nation” from the state. On the contrary, the word nation is often used to describe a people who have no independent state of their own. In any case, endless quibbling about definitions gains you no advantage. It does not automatically follow that America is not a Christian nation simply because the state is not explicitly Christian. You know, at this point I’m not sure if you’re trying to pull off some silly debating trick or if your mentality is so statist that you really cannot comprehend that the state is not the whole of society. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/205 "2010-02-05T16:29:52Z")
How is it that you love “white culture” but loathe the English language? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/206 "2010-02-05T16:54:45Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > On the contrary, the word nation is often used to describe a people who have no independent state of their own. America is not one of those nations. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/207 "2010-02-05T17:04:22Z")
76% of Americans identify themselves as Christian. From what I can tell, about 80% of Congress are Christians. Most of the people in the Executive Branch are Christians. Most of the Supreme Court justices are Christians, aren’t they? How, exactly, is America becoming “deChristianized?” ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/208 "2010-02-05T17:08:07Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > How, exactly, is America becoming “deChristianized?” Presumably by those Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims – and even atheists – being allowed all the god-given rights of Christian American citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/209 "2010-02-05T17:09:56Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Presumably by those Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims – and even atheists – being allowed all the god-given rights of Christian American citizens. So, religious rights are a zero-sum game? Giving one set of people the right to worship in their faith takes that right away from others? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/210 "2010-02-05T17:21:11Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > So, religious rights are a zero-sum game? Giving one set of people the right to worship in their faith takes that right away from others? That’s what some seem to believe – I didn’t say that I thought that way. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/211 "2010-02-05T17:27:43Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > That’s what some seem to believe – I didn’t say that I thought that way. Oh, no, I got that you didn’t. But I wanted to write out what seems to be the argument, in order to try to understand the thought process of someone who thinks that America is becoming “deChristianized.” Because it’s utterly bizarre the reasoning truly is that giving rights to some takes away rights (and apparently, existence) from others. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/212 "2010-02-05T17:28:12Z")
Obtuse Republican of the day, Tom Tancredo, speaking at the Tea Party convention: > [@](#): > > The former congressman from Colorado and 2008 Republican presidential candidate blasted President Obama, saying “people who could not even spell the word ‘vote’, or say it in English, put a committed socialist ideologue in the White House. His name is Barack Hussein Obama.” and > [@](#): > > The former congressman known for his strong opposition to illegal immigration also attacked “the cult of multiculturalism, aided by leftists, liberals all over who don’t have the same idea about America as we do.” Quotes are from today’s [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) “Political Ticker” Seems that the douchbag thinks America is not for non-whites with funny names. Asswipe. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/213 "2010-02-05T17:42:25Z")
Those should be added to the “Stupid Republican Idea of the Day” thread, if it’s still open. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/214 "2010-02-05T17:42:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > America is not one of those nations. What about Red Sox Nation? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/215 "2010-02-05T17:49:20Z")
Tancredo is the same guy who proposed bombing Mecca and Medina in retaliation for terrorist strikes against the US. He’s about as credible as Krusty the Clown. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/216 "2010-02-05T17:52:44Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > So, religious rights are a zero-sum game? Giving one set of people the right to worship in their faith takes that right away from others? It’s similar to their thinking about SSM. Giving homosexuals the right to have a legal marriage (not necessarily a religious church marriage) somehow takes something away from their own rights. Some really do think that rights can be diluted if you give them to more people. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/217 "2010-02-05T18:02:36Z")
::double post:: ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/218 "2010-02-05T18:04:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > So now we _finally_ figured out the cause of Americans’ seemingly colossal ignorance! They lie to pollsters as their roundabout way of helping America: > > “_And Martha, tell that pollster we don’t believe in evolution either. When ‘they’ hear that, they’ll finally increase funding for public education._” > > Of course this doesn’t always work out: > > “_Well Martha, maybe voting for Bonzo the Chimp wasn’t such a smart way to send a signal after all. **Never** thought he’d actually win the election!_” > > Ah … Great Moments in Political Science. 😃 :smack: I didn’t say they did it to help America. They do it because people like to be heard. They like a captive audience. And when people come to them to ask what their opinion is, well goddammit, they’re going to give it, no matter what the question. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The state is specifically what the word “nation” refers to. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The first definition of “nation” is “state,” and any definition has to _include_ the state, even if it’s used more holistically to encompass the population. You can’t divorce the word “nation” from the state. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Alright, then Mr. Webster, what else is it? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The “nation” is American by definition. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The nation is the state. There is no nation without the state. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > How is it that you love “white culture” but loathe the English language? If only there was some way that we could turn to an [authoritative source](http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/00321434?query_type=word&queryword=nation&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=1&search_id=LDxa-IoQmmA-8391&hilite=00321434) for the [meanings](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nation)and [definitions](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nation)of words. Oh, wait! > [@Webster](#): > > 1 a (1) : nationality 5a (2) : a politically organized nationality (3) : a non-Jewish nationality \ b : a community of people composed of one or more nationalities and possessing a more or less defined territory and government c : a territorial division containing a body of people of one or more nationalities and usually characterized by relatively large size and independent status > 2 archaic : group, aggregation > 3 : a tribe or federation of tribes (as of American Indians) > [@American Heritage](#): > > 1. a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own: The president spoke to the nation about the new tax. > 2. the territory or country itself: the nations of Central America. > 3. a member tribe of an American Indian confederation. > 4. an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages. > [@OED](#): > > ``` > I. A people or group of peoples; a political state. > 1. a. A large aggregate of communities and individuals united by factors such as common descent, language, culture, history, or occupation of the same territory, so as to form a distinct people. Now also: such a people forming a political state; a political state. (In early use also in pl.: a country.) > > ``` Do you want a towel for the egg on your face, **Dio**? Every dictionary’s first definition says that a nation is _ **THE PEOPLE** _ in a territory. Now, ladies and gentlemen, pull up a chair and witness classic **Dio** as he backpedals, vainly attempts to refute _the dictionary_, or dismisses it as out of context. Go ahead, **Dio** , I’ve got my Pit OP halfway written. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/219 "2010-02-05T18:05:54Z")
The phrase “America is a Christian nation” is more than a descriptive phrase regarding the people within a territory. The implication of that statement is that the nation itself lives under policies that are driven by or designed to support a particular religious viewpoint. It does not simply mean “most citizens of the country called America are Christian” - it implies that the country called America is made up of ONLY Christians, whose belief system runs the country. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/220 "2010-02-05T18:09:03Z")
Read them again, They all specify that it’s a political organization. Here’s another one for you: > [@](#): > > Nation: > > **state** : a politically organized body of people under a single government. > wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412.md?page=12)