# Why are Republicans so obtuse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412 "2010-02-02T18:04:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/21 "2010-02-02T18:36:23Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Okay, then, 58% of people polled either believe Obama was born outside of the US, or aren’t sure what to believe. And the question \*still \*wasn’t about citizenship. Go back and read the post \*\*Dave \*\*quoted. The key phrase is “over half” versus “more than half.” ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/22 "2010-02-02T18:37:16Z")
Oh, come on! A poll about what Republicans think by The Daily Kos? What’s next? A poll about what Democrats think by Fox News? Consider the source and discard the information as useless. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/23 "2010-02-02T18:38:51Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > And the question \*still \*wasn’t about citizenship. Go back and read the post \*\*Dave \*\*quoted. The key phrase is “over half” versus “more than half.” Whoops, I misread RNATB. I thought he was taking issue with the first statement. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/24 "2010-02-02T18:40:10Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I’m a liberal and most of my friends are liberals. And yet I don’t know anyone who thinks that Bush was literally trying to destroy the US, which is what Republicans obviously think about about Obama with the “wanting the terrorists to win” thing. > > The worst thing I can think of that a lot of liberals genuinely do believe about Bush is is that he intentionally lied to go to war in Iraq, which is, imho, a slight mischaracterization of the situation. I think parallel beliefs about W would be more like “I believe his people fixed the 2000 vote” or “I believe Rove/Cheney/[The Family](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_(Christian_organization)) pulled his strings.” ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/25 "2010-02-02T18:40:42Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > And the question \*still \*wasn’t about citizenship. Go back and read the post \*\*Dave \*\*quoted. The key phrase is “over half” versus “more than half.” IMO, you’re picking nits. Do you think any of those 58% think Obama was naturalized after he was born in Kenya? I fail to see the distinction between “over half” and “more than half”. And Daily Kos didn’t perform the poll, they hired a polling outfit to do it. If Fox News hired a legit polling company to survey Democrats, sure, I’d take it seriously. Anyone know if there’s a similar poll for Democrats? ETA: > [@](#): > > I think parallel beliefs about W would be more like “I believe his people fixed the 2000 vote” or “I believe Rove/Cheney/The Family pulled his strings.” Okay, good point. Yeah, plenty of liberals would probably agree with those, I guess. I wouldn’t…I’m not a big fan of conspiracy theories, or attributing to malice what you can attribute to stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/26 "2010-02-02T18:41:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Twenty-four percent claim that Obama “wants the terrorists to win,” while 33 percent are not sure. Okay, so I should have phrased that as “More than half aren’t sure that he wants to beat the terrorists.” Which is utterly ludicrous given the increase in drone bombings in Pakistan. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/27 "2010-02-02T18:44:29Z")
And nearly three quarters don’t want gay people to be allowed to teach. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/28 "2010-02-02T18:46:49Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > IMO, you’re picking nits. Do you think any of those 58% think Obama was naturalized after he was born in Kenya? I don’t know how to make it any more clear. I am not talking about citizenship in any way, shape or form, so your continual referring to it is just bizarre. I am talking about whether Obama wants the terrorists to win, and how many Republicans believe he does. > [@](#): > > I fail to see the distinction between “over half” and “more than half”. Then read the post I directed you to. Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/29 "2010-02-02T18:47:46Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > IMO, you’re picking nits. Do you think any of those 58% think Obama was naturalized after he was born in Kenya? You are totally missing his point. I was responding to this: > [@](#): > > **Over half** thinks he wants the terrorists to win. Not this: > [@](#): > > More than half aren’t sure if Obama is a citizen. > [@](#): > > And Daily Kos didn’t perform the poll, they hired a polling outfit to do it. If Fox News hired a legit polling company to survey Democrats, sure, I’d take it seriously. Anyone know if there’s a similar poll for Democrats? They hired a polling outfit to do it, and then apparently asked them to make sure the most conservative elements were heavily overrepresented. There are already tons of pretty neutral polls showing that lots of conservatives think crazy thoughts. This is not a neutral poll. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/30 "2010-02-02T18:50:55Z")
The article makes it look like the research firm found survey participants by selecting (one would hope reandomly) from a list of “selfi-dentified Republicans.” I wonder how they camy upi with that list and why they used that research method (if that is in fact what they did). Seems to me you’d get better results by calling 2000 random people and then filtering out only those who identify themselves as Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/31 "2010-02-02T18:51:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You are totally missing his point. I was responding to this: Ugh, sorry. > [@](#): > > There are already tons of pretty neutral polls showing that lots of conservatives think crazy thoughts. Link? I’m genuinely interested, not actually trying to defend this poll. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/32 "2010-02-02T18:57:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The article makes it look like the research firm found survey participants by selecting (one would hope reandomly) from a list of “selfi-dentified Republicans.” I wonder how they camy upi with that list and why they used that research method (if that is in fact what they did). Seems to me you’d get better results by calling 2000 random people and then filtering out only those who identify themselves as Republicans. That list already exists in the form of voter rolls, so not much point in “coming up with one”. > [@](#): > > Link? I’m genuinely interested, not actually trying to defend this poll. There’s a new one posted here pretty much every damn week. Do your own googling. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/33 "2010-02-02T18:57:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They hired a polling outfit to do it, and then apparently asked them to make sure the most conservative elements were heavily overrepresented. So this poll represents the committed, bedrock Repulicans, not those waffling, on-the-fence types? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/34 "2010-02-02T19:01:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That list already exists in the form of voter rolls, so not much point in “coming up with one”. What is your evidence for the proposition that the survey used voter rolls as its list of self-identified Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/35 "2010-02-02T19:06:52Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > So this poll represents the committed, bedrock Repulicans, not those waffling, on-the-fence types? I’m not a statistician. I’m simply pointing out that the survey population overrepresents certain groups who are more conservative than the average. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What is your evidence for the proposition that the survey used voter rolls as its list of self-identified Republicans? Where is your evidence for the proposition that it didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/36 "2010-02-02T19:09:28Z")
The main response so far in this thread seems to boil down to: “The poll was biased/inaccurate/consider the source of the poll and ignore it.” Plus a dose of: “Liberals would say stupid stuff too if you asked them the right questions” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/37 "2010-02-02T19:11:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They hired a polling outfit to do it, and then apparently asked them to make sure the most conservative elements were heavily overrepresented. Is this simply your opinion, or do you have some actual facts to back this statement up? Or are we to take your word “apparently” as “I have no evidence, but am going to try this excuse on for size”? ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/38 "2010-02-02T19:11:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There’s a new one posted here pretty much every damn week. Do your own googling. 😉 But I’m lazy! And sick! _cough_ OH FINE BE THAT WAY. ;)☹ (The sadface smiley is to show that I really am sick. Although it probably wouldn’t prevent me from using Google.) ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/39 "2010-02-02T19:12:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They hired a polling outfit to do it, and then apparently asked them to make sure the most conservative elements were heavily overrepresented. > > There are already tons of pretty neutral polls showing that lots of conservatives think crazy thoughts. This is not a neutral poll. You’re so right about this. Those were pretty loaded questions. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/40 "2010-02-02T19:13:18Z")
I don’t now any Republicans, be it here on the Dope or IRL, who believe that Obama is on the side of the terrorists, or is not a citizen, or that he hates white people, or are against evolution. I am suspicious of how the respondents were chosen, and how the questions were worded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412.md?page=3)