# Why are Republicans so obtuse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412 "2010-02-02T18:04:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/121 "2010-02-04T13:27:33Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > I don’t see why as we are a Christian nation, that children can’t be taught all the theories. I remember being taught the Big Bang Theory right along side the others. Since 70 percent voted they believe in Jesus Christ it only makes sense to teach Genesis. Only for verrrry small values of “teach”. I teach college students. At a **school**. I just got done teaching Genesis. In Confirmation class, inside a Lutheran **church**. I think the difference is crucial. Oh, and we do teach alternate views of Creation (my favorite’s the exploding pumpkin and we are all the seeds… and some got burnt and turned black). But I’m careful to call them Creation **Stories** … “theory” is a scientific term that does not mean “a guess that I really wish were true”. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/122 "2010-02-04T14:03:39Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Only for verrrry small values of “teach”. > > I teach college students. At a **school**. I just got done teaching Genesis. In Confirmation class, inside a Lutheran **church**. I think the difference is crucial. > > Oh, and we do teach alternate views of Creation (my favorite’s the exploding pumpkin and we are all the seeds… and some got burnt and turned black). > > But I’m careful to call them Creation **Stories** … “theory” is a scientific term that does not mean “a guess that I really wish were true”. So what does science teach us about creation? That we came from Apes? Is that the best we can do? We really don’t know and until we do we should keep an open mind. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/123 "2010-02-04T14:10:44Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Nate Silver at [fivethirtyeight.com](http://fivethirtyeight.com) comments on this but not that the poll is flawed (and if it was flawed he is definitely the guy who would gleefully point it out). Rather he comments on what this means. Amen! Put them in power and they are all the same. After Reagan I really started to notice that party alignment meant little or nothing. I can’t stand Jean Shaheen anymore even though I voted for her. Is it Washington that corrupts them or do they just sell out? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/124 "2010-02-04T14:39:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Nate Silver at [fivethirtyeight.com](http://fivethirtyeight.com) comments on this but not that the poll is flawed (and if it was flawed he is definitely the guy who would gleefully point it out). Rather he comments on what this means. That _is_ interesting, and pretty much means my point about overrepresented groups in the poll doesn’t matter. > [@Perciful](#): > > I don’t see why as we are a Christian nation, that children can’t be taught all the theories. I remember being taught the Big Bang Theory right along side the others. Since 70 percent voted they believe in Jesus Christ it only makes sense to teach Genesis. Genesis _is_ taught in schools - by English and history teachers. It’s a historic work of fiction, like _Paradise Lost_ or _The Canterbury Tales._ The problem is not teaching Genesis in schools - it’s teaching it in _science_ classes. > [@](#): > > So what does science teach us about creation? That we came from Apes? Is that the best we can do? How can you do better than the truth? Sure, science doesn’t have all the answers, but it has plenty, and the gaps in our knowledge are immaterial. Don’t believe in gravity either? Tough - you’ll still fall. In any case, we didn’t “come from apes”. We _are_ apes - members of the biological order of primates. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/125 "2010-02-04T14:39:53Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > So what does science teach us about creation? That we came from Apes? Is that the best we can do? > > We really don’t know and until we do we should keep an open mind. This really indicates that you don’t understand evolution AT ALL, and I would recommend that you read the numbers of very interesting and informative threads available on this website regarding the mechanisms of evolution. Of course, evolution does not address “creation.” In other words, it does not address what is called abiogenesis, the formation of life. What evolution DOES address is the mechanisms of change in organisms over time. And it’s a scientific theory (as well as fact) because it meets the definitions of a scientific theory - testable, falsifiable, etc. Again, there are many excellent threads on this board that contain better explanations than I can offer, explanations from real live scientists. In SCIENCE class, we should teach SCIENCE. Creationism and/or Intelligent Design are not SCIENCE - they are religious stories and therefore valid in a religious setting. Not in a SCIENCE class. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/126 "2010-02-04T15:00:04Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > So what does science teach us about creation? That we came from Apes? Is that the best we can do? > > We really don’t know and until we do we should keep an open mind. Apes and man share a common ancestor, according to everything we know(fossil records, DNA evidence). And yes, a stringent, honest attempt to interpret everything we know to be true, while realizing we must always be open to finding and interpreting new data, is very much the best we can do. You are acting as though you don’t want to learn. You’re handwaving away significant scientific evidence and holding it equal to the story of Genesis, which reads like a parable. BTW, I thought I might mention here that there are scientists who believe in God, just in case you might think that God and science are an either/or proposition. Some folks think that acknowledging science means the death of religion. For some people, perhaps. Others choose to see science as a means to learn about the world, and the universe. If you keep an open mind, as you advocate, you might see that learning about God’s creation could be one more way to understand God. I’m not a religious man, but if there are things that make me wonder if there is a god, they aren’t found in old, self-contradictory texts, but in a microscope, and a telescope. Honestly, the Krebs cycle seems like a miracle to me, I don’t need water into wine. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/127 "2010-02-04T15:05:15Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > We really don’t know. We really don’t know what? We don’t know that there is a consistent fossil record laid down in geological layers supported by a radiological record consistent with DNA evidence? God put the physical evidence there for you to use. Do you think you should ignore it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/128 "2010-02-04T15:27:16Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > So what does science teach us about creation? That we came from Apes? Is that the best we can do? “Creation” doesn’t have a scientific meaning, so science doesn’t teach us anything at all about it. Scientific method can tell us some things about the origin of the universe, and that’s a separate question from the origin of life on earth, and THAT’S a separate question from the origin of species. The latter is the thing that scientific method has already told us the most about. Humans and apes had a common ancestor. All species are commonly descended from the first organisms. > [@](#): > > We really don’t know and until we do we should keep an open mind. Actually we do really know. We aren’t guessing. But as long as you wnat to keep an open mind, how open are you willing to keep it? Are you open to Aztec creation myths, the Matrix, the Demiurge? What are you willing to rule out _prima facie_, and why? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/129 "2010-02-04T16:05:55Z")
Any poll that doesn’t include two other, separate questions: 1. I don’t know enough to answer 2. I don’t really care to answer isn’t a poll that should be extrapolated from. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/130 "2010-02-04T16:08:00Z")
Those both fall comfortably under “not sure”. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/131 "2010-02-04T16:09:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Those both fall comfortably under “not sure”. Not when someone grabs the not sure demographic to their side in order to skew debate one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/132 "2010-02-04T16:21:01Z")
The “not sure” is significant when it’s something like “Does the President want the terrorists to win?” ETA if you don’t _care_ to answer, you don’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/133 "2010-02-04T16:22:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The “not sure” is significant when it’s something like “Does the President want the terrorists to win?” Again, not if the “not sure” really means “I don’t care or I don’t know” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/134 "2010-02-04T16:25:44Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Again, not if the “not sure” really means “I don’t care or I don’t know” It means exactly the same as “I don’t know,” and if you don’t want to answer, you don’t have to. If you actually don’t care whether the President wants the terrorists to win, that’s fine, but that’s a separate question from whether you think he wants to. It doesn’t belong as an option to the question because it’s not an answer to the question. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/135 "2010-02-04T16:28:52Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Not when someone grabs the not sure demographic to their side in order to skew debate one way or the other. Fair point. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/136 "2010-02-04T16:40:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It means exactly the same as “I don’t know,” and if you don’t want to answer, you don’t have to. > > If you actually don’t care whether the President wants the terrorists to win, that’s fine, but that’s a separate question from whether you think he wants to. It doesn’t belong as an option to the question because it’s not an answer to the question. Are you really debating that the “not sure” demographic is synonymous with Yes or No (as the case may be)? Not sure is not the same as I don’t know. One implies a knowledge of the subject, the other is answering truthfully that they don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/137 "2010-02-04T16:44:28Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Are you really debating that the “not sure” demographic is synonymous with Yes or No (as the case may be)? I don’t understand what you’re asking here. “Not sure” is an answer to a question, not a demographic. > [@](#): > > Not sure is not the same as I don’t know. One implies a knowledge of the subject, the other is answering truthfully that they don’t know. How is confessiing a lack of knowledge different from saying you don’t know? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/138 "2010-02-04T16:47:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t understand what you’re asking here. “Not sure” is an answer to a question, not a demographic. > > How is confessiing a lack of knowledge different from saying you don’t know? He said “implies a knowledge”, not “implies a lack of knowledge” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/139 "2010-02-04T16:48:07Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > So what does science teach us about creation? That we came from Apes? Is that the best we can do? Evolutionary processes are understood a little more deeply than that. And it’s a far more interesting story than some creation myth. But what do you mean “best”? You expected to be the descendant of a spiffier creature? What is it about being descended from, say, seabass that would be better? > [@](#): > > We really don’t know and until we do we should keep an open mind. But we shouldn’t pretend an opinion has merit just because someone holds it. Nor do I see a reason to think this universe creator would have anything to do with what Christians or Jews or Muslims or Hindus believe. Even if we grant you the assumption that there’s a god, why should we take the word of Christians as to what, if anything, this god thinks and does? ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412/140 "2010-02-04T16:49:54Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Think half of self identified liberals would have said that, yeah, he hates black folks? That he knew about 9/11 before hand? Well, I don’t know about blacks, but on the question of 9/11, [61% of Democrats not sure Bush didn’t know about 9/11.](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance) 35% believed he knew in advance, which mirrors the 36% of Republicans that believed Obama wasn’t born in the US. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-so-obtuse/527412.md?page=8)