# Why are senior managers idiots? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-senior-managers-idiots/598698 "2011-10-05T16:52:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-senior-managers-idiots/598698/101 "2011-10-17T14:43:26Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I’ve had crap bosses with great front-line experience. I’ve had good bosses with zero relevant front-line experience. I don’t think it really hinders nor helps except I suppose in specialized cases. No, more important I think is general managerial skills + broader industry knowledge to understand what core competencies are and when they should change. If “general managerial skills” include “basic introspection” and “ability to sort out good ideas from the latest manager fad” then yes, I agree. The problem is that “introspection leading to a recognition of where I made mistakes in order to learn from them and avoid them in the future” is the opposite of the skillset one needs to become a manager in the first place, which is “project an aura of self-confidence, steal credit for other people’s work, put out as much hot air as possible and keep this up with a ridiculously boosted ego”. Introspection means that you listen to the expertise of others; that if you don’t know the specifics of the new company, you are ready and willing to learn what they are; that you take time to consider whether changes are a good idea (same for staying the course: not making a decision consciously counts as making a decision to let things stay the way or incur the penalty of being late). Introspection means recognizing who employee is able and who’s blowing hot air, which also means good observation. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-senior-managers-idiots/598698/102 "2011-10-17T15:52:31Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I think part of the problem is that too many people are promoted precisely because they have the ‘front line experience’ but without actual managerial experience, and very little experience or aptitude for the broader strategic thinking needed to be effective in senior management. Depends on the culture: mine tends to stress diplomas way too much in hiring processes, and to value hiring someone from outside over promoting someone from inside (because if you promote Jane, who’s so great at her job, who’s going to do her job, eh?), so in general I’m finding that those who’ve “been whores before becoming nuns” tend to be better managers - you can’t hid corpses as easily from someone who used to make them himself as from someone who doesn’t know what they smell like. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-senior-managers-idiots/598698/103 "2011-11-28T15:55:17Z")
Just a little sun-fucking-shiny bump to this thread – the crock of shit I mentioned [back here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14327222&postcount=13) has come to pass. After a couple of weeks of fighting with the union, management has decided that employee morale is a terrible thing. January 9th, we’re back in the office. I wonder how many other people in my department will be spending their lunch hour on CareerBuilder? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-senior-managers-idiots/598698/104 "2011-11-28T16:34:03Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Just a little sun-fucking-shiny bump to this thread – the crock of shit I mentioned [back here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14327222&postcount=13) has come to pass. After a couple of weeks of fighting with the union, management has decided that employee morale is a terrible thing. January 9th, we’re back in the office. > > I wonder how many other people in my department will be spending their lunch hour on CareerBuilder? :mad::(:mad: Sorry to hear it Hal. Was it mentioned during your salary negotiations? Or perhaps offered instead of a raise at any point? If so, could you go to her personally with a breakdown of the additional costs, and what would need to be added for you to break even? Do you know whether the Union even addressed this in their negotiations? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-senior-managers-idiots/598698/105 "2011-11-28T19:50:17Z")
Management spoke individually to everyone who would effected by this and had each of us give a breakdown of what losses we would each expect. I broke down my estimate – annual pay cut of $14k and a loss of 480 hours of family time. They said "thank you very much, we’ll take this all into consideration. Then today, they said “fuck you very much, you’re not worth considering”. We were also told by the Union today that they “…plan on continuing the grievance process by proceeding to binding arbitration as soon as possible”. Uh huh. I’ll be sure to hold out hope on that front. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-senior-managers-idiots/598698/106 "2011-12-01T12:16:48Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It is a mystery to me how big corporations manage to survive, produce their product(s) and be profitable. Really. Economies of scale can only take you so far. Advertising, contacts, & the appearance of durability/dependability. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-senior-managers-idiots/598698/107 "2011-12-01T12:24:56Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Advertising, contacts, & the appearance of durability/dependability. And in some cases, having a monopoly, government protection… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-senior-managers-idiots/598698.md?page=5)