# Why are so many Americans offended by foreigners commenting on American politics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2004, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680 "2004-05-23T19:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/61 "2004-05-24T19:27:49Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > You’ll notice that its only the leftist crowd here that doesn’t want foreigners meddling in certain debates; You won’t find the opposite. Er, what? From what I’ve seen, it’s the conservatives who don’t like to see foreigners participating in discussions of American politics, the same attitude that gives us “The United Nations is irrelevant.” Meanwhile, the non-conservatives are the ones who insist that we _should_ heed the opinions of the rest of the world, since the United States might actually need help from foreign nations to sustain itself. But then, “revisionist history” is a popular game among the right these days… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/62 "2004-05-24T19:50:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Thanks, **marky33**. I’ll reiterate that **Sam** would get exactly the same sort of responses he does here regarding US politics _even if he were an American_, just like \*\*december \*\* did and like a few other current American posters do. No one is talking about a reasoned reply to non-US posters. What **Sam** is talking about is questioning his right to post about US politics simply because he’s Canadian. I’ve seen it happen at least once in the last month alone. I won’t name the poster, but he/she has already contributed to this thread and should at least have the courage to adimit it him/herself. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/63 "2004-05-24T20:16:39Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > You’ll notice that its only the leftist crowd here that doesn’t want foreigners meddling in certain debates; You won’t find the opposite. **rjung** has addressed this quite well, but I’d like to cover a little more territory and ask you, unequivocally, to put up or shut up. You know my political stance quite well by now, **Brutus** ; provide me with one example, if you can, of where I have told any Doper or guest they shouldn’t voice their opinion in a debate because they weren’t a citizen of the country whose policies were under discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/64 "2004-05-24T20:52:46Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > **rjung** has addressed this quite well, but I’d like to cover a little more territory and ask you, unequivocally, to put up or shut up. You know my political stance quite well by now, **Brutus** ; provide me with one example, if you can, of where I have told any Doper or guest they shouldn’t voice their opinion in a debate because they weren’t a citizen of the country whose policies were under discussion. You are the token marxist, right? As you well know, comrade, not only should the workers own the means of production, but they should also go back a page and read the dialect of comrade **iamme99**. If only the workers of the world would unite, they would see that I didn’t specifically name you as an offender. Perhaps you and and comrade **rjung** could provide proof of the opposite? Where the right-wing imperialist/capitalist pig-dogs tell a foreign doper to shut it? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/65 "2004-05-24T21:04:52Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > You are the token marxist, right? As you well know, comrade You, **Brutus** , are not my comrade. > [@](#): > > not only should the workers own the means of production, but they should also go back a page and read the dialect of comrade **iamme99**. Not only have I read that post, I’ve replied to it. Nowhere in that post do I see anything specifically identifying **iamme99** as a leftist, either. > [@](#): > > If only the workers of the world would unite, they would see that I didn’t specifically name you as an offender. No, of course you didn’t. But you did state that the only Dopers who have told foreigners to shut it because of their country of residence are the leftists, and being a leftist it therefore it would stand to reason that I have done the same at some point during my stay here. That is, if we assumed your argument actually had some basis in fact, which it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you and and comrade **rjung** could provide proof of the opposite? Where the right-wing imperialist/capitalist pig-dogs tell a foreign doper to shut it? **rjung** made that claim, and I’ll leave it to him to back it up - something I think he’ll have an easier time doing than you will in your task. Which it’s doubful you’ll undertake, given the amount of weaseling in your most recent post. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/66 "2004-05-24T21:12:08Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > But you did state that the only Dopers who have told foreigners to shut it because of their country of residence are the leftists, and being a leftist it therefore it would stand to reason that I have done the same at some point during my stay here. Um… no. 1) A is a mammal. 2) Some mammals are green. 3) It does not necessarily follow that A is green. You’ll be my pal if I can be your comrade. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/67 "2004-05-24T21:21:37Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That may sound harsh but it’s the truth. Ask the average crowd in a supermarket who the respective leaders of France, Germany, Australia, England or Canada are. You may find a few who know Blair. The average European knows all of them. I strongly doubt the “average european” would know the name of the Australian prime minister. I’m pretty sure at least that the “average french” doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/68 "2004-05-24T21:28:39Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Um… no. 1) A is a mammal. 2) Some mammals are green. 3) It does not necessarily follow that A is green. Oh hell, you’re right; **Brutus** ’ statement would be disproved by finding a right-wing Doper who engaged in such behavior rather than finding a left-wing Doper who didn’t. I still think his statement is factually incorrect, however. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/69 "2004-05-24T21:28:55Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > Nowhere in that post do I see anything specifically identifying **iamme99** as a leftist, either. Remember, the poster must move amongst the BBS as a fish swims in the sea! Also, it helps when they use ‘common sense’. If you expect every post to carry a persons political affiliation, then it is obvious that the yankee pig-dogs have stolen your common sense, much as they steal labor from their enslaved working class! **iamme99** is one of yours. You will need to use that tool of the intelligista, ‘reading’, to figure that out. Fraternal greetings to the peoples of socialist nations, and I still wait for a example of a rightie from these boards telling a foreigner to hush up! ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/70 "2004-05-24T21:35:10Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I strongly doubt the “average european” would know the name of the Australian prime minister. I’m pretty sure at least that the “average french” doesn’t. I know Australia. But haven’t got the faintest idea who’s president of Canada of whether they even have a president or a Prime Minister or just make do with a lumberjack. Of course I’m so dumb Bush could beat me in checkers. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/71 "2004-05-24T21:53:36Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Fraternal greetings to the peoples of socialist nations, and I still wait for a example of a rightie from these boards telling a foreigner to hush up! [From just 1 week ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4869449#post4869449): > [@Senggüm](#): > > Unregistered US voters … the Democrats, Republicans and US political pollsters don’t even give a diddle about their opinions. Now why in the hell would I care about some foreigner’s opinion? They should worry about their own backyards … See also in that thread, post #61 by **Magiver** and posts #72, 74, 78, and 85 by **Senggüm**. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/72 "2004-05-24T22:17:36Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I know Australia. But haven’t got the faintest idea who’s president of Canada of whether they even have a president or a Prime Minister or just make do with a lumberjack. Of course I’m so dumb Bush could beat me in checkers. We have a prime minister. Our current prime minister is named Paul Martin. Nobody elected him. He was chosen as an interim leader by his party when Jean Chrétien stepped down from the job late last year. An election was called yesteday for June 28. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/73 "2004-05-24T22:32:32Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > **rjung** made that claim, and I’ll leave it to him to back it up - something I think he’ll have an easier time doing than you will in your task. Which it’s doubful you’ll undertake, given the amount of weaseling in your most recent post. Since **jshore** already did the legwork on this (thanks!), I’ll just remind comrade **Brutus** that examples of conservatives tryingh to silence dissenting voices isn’t limited to foreigners. Just allowing students to write [anti-war poetry](http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/11289/index.php) is enough to get the “freedom-loving” righties in an uproar… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/74 "2004-05-24T22:48:53Z")
> [@iamme99](#): > > . What does upset people such as myself, is when someone who doesn’t live here and doesn’t pay taxes here, ADAMATLY, FORCEFULLY AND CONTINOUSLY defends a particular party and/or politician or conversely, denigrates a particular politician. When non-citizens do this , they are effectively inserting themselves into our political process and trying to tell us who and/or what we should vote for. . And then? Why shouldn’t we have an opinion aboiut your politicians? How could we even avoid to have such an opinion. And why not express it? As for inserting ourselves in your political process or trying to influence your vote, once again, why not, if we can? Why should we limit ourselves to influence things happening within our borders? Especialy in the case of country like the USA, which has a lot of influence and doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Actually, I believe we _should_ feel concerned about what’s hapening in other countries. If I had a mean to convince one hundred US or Italian people to vote against their current leaders, I would not hesitate to do so. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/75 "2004-05-24T22:52:56Z")
Also, concerning people maquereding as americans : why should it import? If an argument is convincing, does it cease to be so when it comes from a foreigner? Why would it change a thing? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/76 "2004-05-24T23:01:45Z")
Since this entire thread has been devoid of hard evidence, it seems fair to add my own impression (based in part on SDMB observations) that: Non-Americans are every bit as prickly as Americans concerning criticism by “outsiders”, have as much pride in their nationality, and are just as willing to tell xenophobic, ignorant bigots to bug off. The quotient of vocal self-loathing may be a bit higher among Americans, but I’m not yet willing to accept that as a foregone conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/77 "2004-05-24T23:16:18Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > > [@Sisyphus' Stone](#): > > > > The US is the greediest consumer in the world. When I see a morbidly obese person, I think Yank. > > > > We know that the US is aggressively assertive in claiming the lion’s share of the world’s resources, just like a morbidly obese person at the line-up of an all-you-can-eat banquet. > > > > So we criticise, and offer constructive options as alternatives to competition over resources. > > Yeah, very constructive there. Why don’t you take take those greedy fat-ass yanks to the pit, where your post belongs. I suspect you’ve been wooshed… ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/78 "2004-05-24T23:28:37Z")
Part of it derives from us being a “nation of immigrants”. Ultimately, anybody who isn’t a Amerindian is an immigrant or the decendent of immigrants. They came here to _get away from_ their homelands. This implies a rejection of “the way things are done back in the Old Country”. Including political ideas. In addition, people who were already here pressured _new_ immigrants to conform to American customs/views. So a hostility exists towards “foreigners who try to tell us what to do”. Note that, IMHO, _more_ hostility exists towards European political input than, say, Asian business techniques. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/79 "2004-05-24T23:29:54Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Since **jshore** already did the legwork on this (thanks!), I’ll just remind comrade **Brutus** that examples of conservatives tryingh to silence dissenting voices isn’t limited to foreigners. Just allowing students to write [anti-war poetry](http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/11289/index.php) is enough to get the “freedom-loving” righties in an uproar… Watch it, or I may have to enact a thoroughly leftist ‘hate-speech law’ to stop that sort of posting… ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680/80 "2004-05-25T00:12:09Z")
\ Truth is, we do listen, but not only are the “comments of the world” sometimes an endless babble of contradictory advice, but we do have to consider the source. In addition to what **Bosda** said, many of us have relatives in graves scattered around the world, testimony to our rescue of all too many European and Asian nations that wasted large parts of the 20th century and countless lives with stupid and dangerous ideas. We watch as our soldiers have to go over and cope with things that Europe really should be taking care of on its own but simply can’t, like the Yugoslavian wars. So forgive us for not regarding the rest of the world’s “wisdom” without a healthy dose of skepticism. That said, of course informed advice and healthy debate is always nice to hear. But anything that starts off with “Listen, you flag-waving fat morons…!” won’t get anywhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-americans-offended-by-foreigners-commenting-on-american-politics/246680.md?page=5)