If you look at the most important scientists, you’d realize that 99% of them just look more intelligent than the average people, they don’t look exceptionally intelligent. I very much doubt that genetic factors play a huge role in this. Someone may retort that, brain structure has a more important role than what we look like, but it is also true those who look intelligent are moreso than the average population, less violent and earn a greater income. By the way, every scientists will tell you that without hard work they would never have been where they are. They are very humble and they are right to be so.
It is common knowledge that Ashkenazi Jews have higher verbal IQ and normal performance IQ. I don’t think I need to cite anyone, since it’s common knowledge to those who know anything on the subject.
I very much suspected those errors were not errors but gross mischaracterizations. Thank you for proving me right.
Well, personally I am not sure that “genetic factors certainly must have had an impact” and I have not seen it claimed in this thread that Jews “have the highest IQ amongst the ethnic groups.”
Your answer to the op seems to be “no can answer but includes genetic factors … and lots of other things.” Which is fine, with my doubt about the genetic factors noted.
Your contribution and re-resurrection of this thread seems to be to chime in that Jews are not genetically geniuses and that other human sub-populations have more raw intelligence and do better on some loose correlates of intelligence. No debate with that from me.
FINALLY, SOMEONE OPEN-MINDED, THANK YOU. Anyway, seriously, why do we focus on skin color and ethnicity, when we can observe a lot of variance within those groups? I mean, we might argue that what matters is not our “ethnic” or “racial” group, but our “genetic caste” in lack of a better word.
Same logical error you’re committing. If we already have accurate IQ studies, then you can provide them and rank them. If we do not, you cannot gainsay results by claiming that we “know” what they should be.
I’m sure that most Dopers also recognize what it means that you are unable or unwilling to support your claims with cites and instead simply maintain that you must be right, so you won’t cite anything.
Aaaaaand we’ve reached the next predictable stop: those who disagree must be closed minded, because all open minded people must agree with a set of claims.
Is the word “sheeple” far behind?
Perhaps in a YouTube video?
If we kill off all the stupid people in the world, well, I very much suspect that every group would virtually have the same IQ. I think there’s a lot of chance that this is true.
LOL… I can’t believe… You’re so wrong and you know it. Your arguments are so nonsensical, I don’t even know where to begin.
Here:
“Among those who have discussed this question, there is a
general consensus on two points. First, that Jews have a higher average IQ
than gentile whites (this term is used for non-Jewish whites). Second, that Jews
are stronger on verbal ability than on visualization and visual-spatial
ability. Beyond this, there is a considerable range of conclusions.”
Anthropologists look at cranial features to rank species, well, I’d argue that we can do the same for various human populations and the individuals within those groups. So, I’d say that “superior” people are large-headed, have smaller teeth, more elliptical dental arcs, more gracile skulls, etc., even though people who don’t fit in that category can have IQs of 200 and beyond and can have more intellectual potential.
That’s readily apparent. Your stated inability to make sense of the very clear points I’m making is also apparent.
Yet again, are you ever going to do the word of creating a coherent, cogent argument? Or is your argument simply spastically flailing from one error, irrelevancy or logical error to the next?
That is not a citation. Do you know what a citation is?
Your citation also does not answer the question at issue, have you forgotten it?
Your argument is failing on pretty much every single level, and that seems not to bother you.
Aaaaaand we’re now a step away from phrenology.
Use google instead of asking me for proper citation. Seriously, stop being intellectually dishonest.
I don’t think you can deny that there is some degree of truth in what I said.
So, you also do not know what the phrase “intellectually dishonest” means.
I take it that not only will you not put forward a coherent, cogent argument, you will also refuse to cite your own claims and will react negatively to requests that you support your own argument. Dopers are not, I think, unfamiliar with such a pattern.
You know I am right, yet you keep pointing out errors or omissions that are completely irrelevant.
You asked me to prove that Ashkenazi Jews have a higher verbal IQ and a normal performance IQ.
Use google and read the rest, he also points out that Jews have a mediocre performance IQ if I remember well.
Which, of course, you did not do. The uncited quote you provided (which likewise did not have data to back it up), stated that “Jews have a higher average IQ than gentile whites[…] Jews are stronger on verbal ability than on visualization and visual-spatial ability.”
Basic logic should inform you that “stronger” in one area does not automatically mean “normal” in another. And you still refuse to actually cite your claims, let alone develop a coherent, cogent argument. You have blown past all the factual errors and logical failings of your argument, have provided a YouTube video instead of a citation, demanded that others look up your citations for you, claimed that you are so obviously correct that you don’t actually have to support your position with citations and advanced a position which is in spitting distance of phrenology.
All of this without clearly and explicitly stating a position that goes beyond ‘I don’t think Jews are so smart!’ (without any real reasoning behind that claim) and all while not answering the question that this thread is actually about, which is why Jews are overrepresented in certain fields.
Storfer (1990,p.314)
writes that “Jewish people, considered as a group, tend to excel in some cognitive
domains – for example, verbal and numerical ability – but not in others, as
witness their unexceptional performance on certain types of spatial or
perceptual problems.
I told you to read the rest.
Seriously, did you read the thread that you re-resurrected before you reanimated it? Or were you just looking for a public square to flog a particular horse?
Really? Superior people have particular skull features? Really? Wow.
You brought this thread back up from its deserved slumber … for another time, flogged it with drivel, some untrue claims, many claims that make no coherent point even if true (which a few just randomly happen to be), and some positions that seem to argue against themselves. Seriously why? What is the point that you are failing to make? Which horse is it that you are looking to flog?
My position in this thread has been that culture matters lots; something that is also true of this board and this forum. The culture here is that you come into a thread adding something that actually is pertinent to the discussion, that you make an argument that makes some logical coherent sense, and that you make claims regarding facts that are both accurate and that you can back up if called upon to do so. “Google it yourself” or “it is obvious that” or “it is well known” are, in this forum’s culture, going to be read as “I’m making shit up.” As it should be.
It seems that when you boil away the made up factoids and throw away inanity your only point was to agree with the middle of the road position of the discussion: there may be some genetic IQ factors that play into the numbers of Jews at the highest levels of creative accomplishment in maths and sciences, be it absolute number or pattern of intelligence, and certainly there are a variety of cultural and situational factors.
And?
I think arguing with you is a waste of time. It’s like talking to a wall. As for why Jews are overrepresented in certain fields, do you have any statistics to back it up, aside statistics on Nobel Prize and other awards? In my understanding, Jews are not overrepresented in science or engineering, at least nowadays.