# Why are so many people pro-choice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2001, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369 "2001-03-25T00:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Turbo\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@Turbo\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turbo_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/21 "2001-03-25T01:51:43Z")
alloran, Are you here to debate or just insult people who don’t agree with you? You define the term of “a brain”, since everyone else is “wrong”. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/22 "2001-03-25T01:52:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* > \*\*So, what then is wrong with forced abortion? If all you are doing is removing a “tumor” that doesn’t leave much room to condemn it. \*\* Simple. We don’t force people to remove tumors, either. Forcing medical procedures on people is unethical. It doesn’t matter whether it’s an appendectomy or an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/23 "2001-03-25T01:53:19Z")
**Clean up on aisle four!** I think I’ll step out before the bridge goes out, too. ---
**Author:** ![alloran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a587f6/32.png) [@alloran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alloran)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/24 "2001-03-25T01:53:26Z")
Duly noted. I apologize to SexyWriter and Flymaster. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/25 "2001-03-25T01:54:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alloran \* > \*\*Try actually thinking about it and looking for them, instead of just being lazy. > \*\* Wait…I have to find cites to back up YOUR point? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/26 "2001-03-25T01:55:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flymaster \* > Forcing medical procedures on people is unethical. It doesn’t matter whether it’s an appendectomy or an abortion. Well, that may be your opinion, but if a cop sees me swallow a baggie of coke I’ll be on my way to a forced medical procedure Pretty Darn Quick. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/27 "2001-03-25T01:56:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* > \*\* > So, what then is wrong with forced abortion? If all you are doing is removing a “tumor” that doesn’t leave much room to condemn it. \*\* Because you’re entering a woman’s body against her will. Where I come from, that’s against the law, and pretty reprehensible, too. ---
**Author:** ![alloran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a587f6/32.png) [@alloran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alloran)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/28 "2001-03-25T01:56:59Z")
Flymaster, Everything in your body is made up of cells. Therefore, technically you are just a “bag of cells”. ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/29 "2001-03-25T01:59:36Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Well, that may be your opinion, but if a cop sees me swallow a baggie of coke I’ll be on my way to a forced medical procedure Pretty Darn Quick. \*\* Yes, but that’s because cocaine is currently illegal. Getting pregnant is NOT illegal. -L ---
**Author:** ![Turbo\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@Turbo\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turbo_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/30 "2001-03-25T02:00:56Z")
I guess I’ll define a brain then. According to the AMA, the brain is the major organ of the nervous system and consists of three main structures: the brain stem, cerebellum, and the forebrain, the bulk of which consists of the cerebrum, the two thalami, the hypothalamus and the limbic system. ---
**Author:** ![alloran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a587f6/32.png) [@alloran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alloran)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/31 "2001-03-25T02:01:36Z")
I was talking about finding cites to support your point of view. However, if you want to find cites for mine, go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/32 "2001-03-25T02:01:37Z")
Alloran: You’re really not going to last very long around here if your response to points raised in Great Debates is to tell people to “shut up”. Now, yes the brain is complex. Clearly, a single cell does not have a brain, which makes “life begins at conception” nonsense. Clearly, a newborn baby does have a brain, which means that an eight-and-a-half-month-old unborn baby has a brain, too. Where do you draw the line? One response is to have a “gray area” in between, which is what _Roe v. Wade_ did (however clumsy it may have been, and whatever reservations we may have about “legislating from the bench”.) In other words, I have no moral qualms whatsoever about “morning-after pills” or early–within the first few weeks–abortions. I would personally be willing to ban all late term abortions except for those where the baby is doomed to die because of overwhelming birth defects (which doesn’t mean a cleft palate or Down’s syndrome), or where the mother will really, truly die–taking the child with her–without an abortion, which is like having to separate conjoined twins. Then, in between, we’d have a period where we’d muddle through on a case-by-case basis or something. Note that the great majority of abortions are performed early on, in that first period where I at least don’t have any real moral qualms. jmullaney: It’s pretty well established that people have a right to personal autonomy which includes the right to refuse medical treatment, even if it’s for their own good. Forced abortions would violate the rights of the _woman_ in that case. ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/33 "2001-03-25T02:03:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flymaster \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by alloran \* > > \*\*Try actually thinking about it and looking for them, instead of just being lazy. > > \*\* > > Wait…I have to find cites to back up YOUR point? I think not. \*\* Yes, where ARE your cites for this? You just make some sweeping statement, but you have nothing to back it up? So far, I can’t find anything indicating that an overwhelming majority of women either DO or DO NOT need counseling after terminating an unwanted pregnancy. So I’d love to know where you found your information. Furthermore, I’d like you to answer the question about other options. -L ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/34 "2001-03-25T02:05:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alloran \* > \*\*I was talking about finding cites to support your point of view. However, if you want to find cites for mine, go right ahead. \*\* We can’t. Because there are none. -L ---
**Author:** ![alloran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a587f6/32.png) [@alloran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alloran)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/35 "2001-03-25T02:05:14Z")
My cousin Jeffrey did not have a brain. He died fifteen minutes after he was born. Are you willing to say that Jeffrey was not a person? ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/36 "2001-03-25T02:07:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SexyWriter \* > Yes, but that’s because cocaine is currently illegal. Getting pregnant is NOT illegal. > > -L It isn’t currently illegal in the U.S. but forced medical procedures are. So are we saying forced abortions are perfectly OK where they _are_ legal? ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/37 "2001-03-25T02:08:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alloran \* > \*\*My cousin Jeffrey did not have a brain. He died fifteen minutes after he was born. Are you willing to say that Jeffrey was not a person? \*\* Sadly, Jeffrey was not a fully formed, viable human being. So no, he was not a person. I feel for his mother. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/38 "2001-03-25T02:09:26Z")
If your cousin Jeffery did not have a brain, then no, he was never really a living person. Sorry about that. It doesn’t mean his mother wasn’t affected by the loss of her hopes for a son; besides, if she believed him to be a person, she will mourn him as a person, even if I am of a different opinion. My grandmother probably ceased to be a person at some point between that last stroke/auto accident and the time of her official death in the hospital a few days later. ---
**Author:** ![Turbo\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@Turbo\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turbo_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/39 "2001-03-25T02:13:00Z")
Since you wanted a cite for your own claim that women “almost always, if not absolutely always” need therapy, > [@](#): > > How Common is PAS? > > Two-thirds of the woman had used contraceptives rarely or > Former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, a famous opponent of abortion, was asked by President Reagan to study the health effects of induced abortions. He responded in a 1989-JAN-8 letter that he could not form a conclusion from the available data. A year later, Dr. Koop told representatives of some pro-life groups that the risk of significant > emotional problems after an abortion was “miniscule”. [http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo\_post.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_post.htm) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2001, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369/40 "2001-03-25T02:13:34Z")
jmullaney: I don’t believe in making drugs illegal either. So, I’m not supporting any “forced medical procedures” done “for your own good” there either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-so-many-people-pro-choice/59369.md?page=3)