# Why are some american gold medlaists not saluting the flag during the anthem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489 "2016-08-11T21:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/61 "2016-08-12T15:48:38Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > That’s one fucking law that needs to be repealed, penalty for non compliance or not. The government wants to tell me what I _should_ do when a particular song is played? Can they also make me do the stupid YMCA dance? Hey, have some consideration for useless legislation! I bet on November 14th, you disrespect National Pickle Day, too! ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/62 "2016-08-12T15:53:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But a law that _suggests_ without mandating? Sorry, can’t agree. A law like that should be repealed as a waste of paper. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/63 "2016-08-12T15:54:05Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > > > And I don’t take my hat off for GD God Bless America. > > Damn straight. When the hell did “God Bless America” becomes the country’s secondary anthem, anyway (I know, 9/11, but still …)? As a kid in school about 35-40 years ago, the “secondary anthem” was America the Beautiful. And there were a few other patriotic songs we were taught, some of which were horrible. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/64 "2016-08-12T15:59:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hey, have some consideration for useless legislation! I bet on November 14th, you disrespect National Pickle Day, too! Sunday, July 24 was National Tequila Day. I love my country, so I participated. Monday morning there were bright-eyed wide awake people walking about. Godless heathens every one of them! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/65 "2016-08-12T16:08:43Z")
Back in college during the Viet Nam war, we didn’t even stand up for the national anthem. That was to show that we were the patriots and those committing atrocities in the name of the flag weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/66 "2016-08-12T16:27:57Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > As a kid in school about 35-40 years ago, the “secondary anthem” was America the Beautiful. And there were a few other patriotic songs we were taught, some of which were horrible. That’s a much better song. It’s in 4/4 so you can march to it, and the range is smaller. And it’s not about a war. ---
**Author:** ![Pixel\_Dent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Pixel\_Dent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixel_Dent)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/67 "2016-08-12T16:28:07Z")
“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.” TL/DR; If you salute the flag you hate Baby Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/68 "2016-08-12T16:31:54Z")
> [@Pixel\_Dent](#): > > “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.” > > TL/DR; If you salute the flag you hate Baby Jesus. Bu…bu…but Jesus wrote the Constitution!?! 😕 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/69 "2016-08-12T16:50:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A law that compelled this speech (or expressive speech-like conduct) would be impermissible. > > But a law that _suggests_ without mandating? Sorry, can’t agree. > > They can’t make you do the dance, either, but then again you already knew they couldn’t make you do the salute when you asked about the dance, so I suspect you were trying to strengthen your rhetoric with an inapposite comparison. You know, this actually makes the gold-fringe sovereign-citizen stuff sound – well, not _plausible,_ but, like, Very Slightly Less Laughable. _“No, I know they told me to stand up and do that; and, yes, I know there’s official stuff on the books saying that I should do as they direct; but it’s not, technically, mandated! No, I can’t show you where it’s written that it’s not mandated; that’s just obvious; you’re trying to bluff me into thinking I have to do it, but I know that I don’t actually have to do it, and I know that you know that I don’t have to do it!”_ ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/70 "2016-08-12T17:25:25Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You know, this actually makes the gold-fringe sovereign-citizen stuff sound – well, not _plausible,_ but, like, Very Slightly Less Laughable. > _“No, I know they told me to stand up and do that; and, yes, I know there’s official stuff on the books saying that I should do as they direct; but it’s not, technically, mandated! No, I can’t show you where it’s written that it’s not mandated; that’s just obvious; you’re trying to bluff me into thinking I have to do it, but I know that I don’t actually have to do it, and I know that you know that I don’t have to do it!”_ Well, that’s kind of why I was wondering about the “should” language. To me, in plain English, that does seem like it’s not mandating, but suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/71 "2016-08-12T17:38:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There’s some reason to stand with your hand over your heart: > > Because there is no penalty for non-compliance, it’s certainly fair to say that no one is compelled to act thusly, but it’s hyperbole to say that no reason at all exists. It’s simply not a compelling reason. > > Or it may be that you are drawing a distinction between a military salute and the civilian hand-over-heart with that latter not constituting a “salute?” Keep in mind that this is the same section of the USC that establishes: [Carl Garner Federal Lands Cleanup Day](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Garner_Federal_Lands_Cleanup_Day) [Law Day](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Day_(United_States)) [National Safe Boating Week](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Safe_Boating_Campaign) as well as the national tree. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/72 "2016-08-12T18:42:12Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > That’s a much better song. It’s in 4/4 so you can march to it, and the range is smaller. And it’s not about a war. What’s wrong with it being about a war? France’s anthem is about the French Revolution – it talks about blood of tyrants and stuff like that. Our’s is pretty tame. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/73 "2016-08-12T18:48:58Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > As a kid in school about 35-40 years ago, the “secondary anthem” was America the Beautiful. And there were a few other patriotic songs we were taught, some of which were horrible. > > That’s a much better song. It’s in 4/4 so you can march to it, and the range is smaller. And it’s not about a war. The patriotic song I remember disliking the most was “[This Is My Country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_My_Country)”. Even as a twelve-year-old, it was so obviously overly jingoistic. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/74 "2016-08-12T18:52:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Prior to 2008, sub-paragraphs A-C read as follows: > > The most recent change prior to 2008 was from 1976, and that also contained similar language, although not broken out by paragraph. See [this page image.](http://uscode.house.gov/statviewer.htm?volume=90&page=812) > > Prior to 1976, the most recent amendment was in 1942. I spent a lot of time watching movies in military theaters. When the National Anthem came on we all stood at attention. No hand over heart. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/75 "2016-08-12T21:44:29Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > Damn straight. When the hell did “God Bless America” becomes the country’s secondary anthem, anyway (I know, 9/11, but still …)? > > I’m beyond irritated at the PA announcer at ball games telling the crowd to “please rise, and remove your hats” for the singing of “God Bless America.” I’ll stand for our national anthem, thank you, don’t tell me what else I have to stand up for. Soon it’ll be “please rise for the singing of Rock and Roll Pt. 2, and remain standing for the performance of Seven Nation Army by the Pleasant Valley Middle School choir.” > > My family is aware of my ranting. They’re mostly tolerant. And again for every veteran walking across the field or throwing a ball. Sometimes I will. Sometimes I’m just tired. I’m not making some kind of statement if I sit while a vet walks across the field, it just means I’m tired. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/76 "2016-08-12T22:28:55Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You know, this actually makes the gold-fringe sovereign-citizen stuff sound – well, not _plausible,_ but, like, Very Slightly Less Laughable. > _“No, I know they told me to stand up and do that; and, yes, I know there’s official stuff on the books saying that I should do as they direct; but it’s not, technically, mandated! No, I can’t show you where it’s written that it’s not mandated; that’s just obvious; you’re trying to bluff me into thinking I have to do it, but I know that I don’t actually have to do it, and I know that you know that I don’t have to do it!”_ But I can show you where it’s written that it’s not mandated. In my view, if your argument depends on defeating a strawman that only slightly resembles what I have said, you have conceded the fraility of your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/77 "2016-08-12T22:29:59Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I spent a lot of time watching movies in military theaters. When the National Anthem came on we all stood at attention. No hand over heart. OK. I don’t doubt that. I am simply reporting what the US Code says, and when it said it. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/78 "2016-08-12T22:58:35Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Unfortunately, no. Just one more reason I’m voting Trump this year. :mad: You mean [this](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/L8RwSOlRAAQ/hqdefault.jpg)Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/79 "2016-08-13T03:23:07Z")
I put my hand over my heart when they play the _Internationale_. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489/80 "2016-08-13T03:31:40Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > You mean [this](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/L8RwSOlRAAQ/hqdefault.jpg)Trump? Why does Trump hate America? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-american-gold-medlaists-not-saluting-the-flag-during-the-anthem/762489.md?page=5)