# Why are some bad traits physically attractive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 8, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-bad-traits-physically-attractive/801065 "2017-11-08T18:23:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-bad-traits-physically-attractive/801065/21 "2017-11-09T14:45:35Z")
Speaking of penises. All our primate cousins have penis bones. Ours are fully hydraulic precisely to signal our health and prowess by making them erect without using any bones at all. “Look babe, no bones!” “Ooh, that’s hot.” ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-bad-traits-physically-attractive/801065/22 "2017-11-09T14:58:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > For women at least it’s because women are less hairy than men, and exaggerating gender features makes people and animals more attractive. It’s the same way men’s fashion is often designed to make the shoulders look wider, and women’s fashion is often designed to make the neck look more slender. I think this is the biggest factor, for the examples in the OP. It’s not just hair. Thicker arms are masculine and subcutaneous fat is feminine, and are therefore considered “unattractive” on the opposite gender. > [@](#): > > Status. In our society high status people don’t risk themselves or do hard physical work, so they don’t usually have scars and callouses. I agree that status is also a big part of it. (And it’s not just physical attractiveness, either. E.g. I believe that the relative appeal of hardwood floors vs carpets has completely reversed over the last century, and that this is entirely due to price shifts.) But I don’t know if it’s correct that scars and callouses are considered unattractive in men. Countering the “status” aspect is the fact that these are highly masculine traits, and have “rugged tough guy” appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-bad-traits-physically-attractive/801065/23 "2017-11-09T15:10:22Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Speaking of penises. All our primate cousins have penis bones. This is largely true. > [@](#): > > Ours are fully hydraulic precisely to signal our health and prowess by making them erect without using any bones at all. “Look babe, no bones!” “Ooh, that’s hot.” This is [raw speculation](https://theconversation.com/how-penis-bones-help-primates-win-the-mating-game-and-why-humans-might-have-lost-theirs-70312). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-bad-traits-physically-attractive/801065/24 "2017-11-09T15:50:22Z")
No, that’s _rawr_ speculation. I’ll be in my bunk. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-bad-traits-physically-attractive/801065/25 "2017-11-09T18:24:39Z")
Yes. Also please note that there is NOT a one-to-one correlation between “this thing exists” and “this thing must directly positively impact my chance of having sex and babies”. ---
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-bad-traits-physically-attractive/801065/26 "2017-11-09T21:57:11Z")
No trait can be called bad if it gets you laid. And yes I do mean that seriously. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-bad-traits-physically-attractive/801065/27 "2017-11-09T22:10:30Z")
I see two different logic drivers - Some characteristics are appreciated because they are biological - some are based on social circumstances. Then a gain, some of the social circumstances are based on biological attraction, some on passing fashion. As mentioned, the attractiveness of a man or woman - as judged by the opposite sex, and so used as comparisons by other members of their own sex - are fairly simple; the person must be healthy and capable. In the case of women, this means “good breeding stock” - trying to avoid snickering here - so certain characteristics are important. For men, women generally look for a “good provider” for their offspring. As mentioned, symmetry is something we judge highly but may not be aware of. It is a side effect of healthy, which _can_ be an indicator of good genes. As usual, this is in general - not a guaranteed 1:1 match. Asymmetry can indicate bad genes, or childhood illnesses during development - which indicates poor immune system. Similarly, skin blemishes, sores, patchy hair, etc. are all indicators of possible poor health. For women, too much body hair or too heavily muscled arms can also be an indicator of unhealthy hormone imbalance - since significant body hair and large upper body strength are characteristics of testosterone. Similarly, men who are overall obese, rather than piling it on mostly on the gut, appear to have a hormone imbalance. Socially, people recognize status through social cues. So a change in style (as indicated by the discussion above about tans) creates a shift in what is seen as a desirable trait, indicating in men wealth or ability to support offspring. Fancy dress used to indicate wealth. Not needing to go outside - pale skin - indicated wealth. Having plenty to eat - being fat - indicated wealth or social success. Modern society has flipped some o these indicators. They guys in the fancy uniforms are the foot soldiers for the guys in plain business suits. ability to lie in the sun and tan (in moderation) indicates wealth. Being able to eat right and exercise, and willpower to stay thin - indicator of social success. As for skin colour, the European powers from the age of discover until near the end of the 20th century ruled much of the world and dominated it economically. Sadly, this resulted in a lot of cultures equating whiter skin colour with social dominance and success. Same goes for the hair - there’s no preference that I can see for straight hair, just that racial characteristics not associated with the perceived dominant group are viewed negatively by some. I haven’t seen a negative association for say, Shirley Temple’s curls. the only negativity would be that your styling options are more limited with unruly hair. As a side note, in _Everyone Lies_, a book analyzing Google data by Seth Stephans-Davidowich, he mentions two notable insecurities displayed by Google searches; men ask “is my penis too small?”, and women ask “why does my vagina smell?”. The current trend toward women shaving their pubic areas may be a trend to try and control their perceived problem. The more cynical might suggest that it is because men are looking for little girls, but then the obvious male preference for obvious secondary characteristics post-puberty - visible breasts, wide hips, rounder buttocks - don’t really support that view. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-bad-traits-physically-attractive/801065/28 "2017-11-10T07:01:33Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > No trait can be called bad if it gets you laid. > > And yes I do mean that seriously. So, the necrophile paedophile rapist trait…😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-bad-traits-physically-attractive/801065.md?page=1)