# Why are some right wing leaders and spokespeople toying with the idea of civil war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 17, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381 "2009-04-17T04:13:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/21 "2009-04-17T13:17:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Invoking the prospect of civil war implies that current issues are incredibly important. It implies that the Democrats are so horribly wrong that it’s worth destroying the country to oppose them. So vote for Republicans in the mid-term elections next year. Yep, this sounds like the answer, and makes me feel almost silly for even asking the question. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/22 "2009-04-17T13:22:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Not bad for off the cuff. Any administration spokesman will be disregarded. Because they’re traitors and terrorist lovers and baby killers and liberals (as if there’s any difference). I’d say the best thing to do would be to allow these fine Americans to speak. Specifically, I’d go back a couple of years and dig up the speechs they made about how it was treasonous and gave aid and comfort to the enemy to divide the country in a time of war. Then right after I broadcast that speech, I’d broadcast their current speech in which they advocate secession and civil war. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/23 "2009-04-17T14:10:23Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I know that as a lefter, I would have no problem with the red states going on their own way, as long as some kind of reasonable deal could be made allowing freedom to travel between the two nations. I’d embrace the idea of oldschool Republicans getting (mostly) out of my government. > > The righties don’t really want to secede, though. Their states depend too much on blue states, and they know we would still be doing pretty well without them. Vegas would do badly as a city-state, surrounded by a foreign country. California would disintegrate, with large cities being “Leftland” and all the rural areas and the mountains being part of “Republicanada”. Most places would go like that. If you live in a big city, it’s easy to think that the majority of the world is like that… left leaning. The reality is that it’s terribly terribly mixed. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/24 "2009-04-17T15:35:31Z")
I just wish I could actually find what the hell is making everyone so mad they would consider this. Have taxes been raised? Has the government taken over the banks, tv, radio, hospitals, schools? Are rights being trampled? I just dont get this outrage, truly. Obama hasn’t led us into a war yet or anything has he? Did his policies cause this depression? wTF??? I also find it very ironic that the majority of the people bitching at the tea parties wont even be affected by the eventual tax hike!! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/25 "2009-04-17T15:43:38Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > At the end of the Snopes article, I see the opposite–a citation of language in the Constitution that says all states can split with consent of Congress. They’re calling it a “legend.” Apparently no such thing exists in the document. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/26 "2009-04-17T15:48:52Z")
Actually, I think they’re just desperately grasping for something that will draw attention and keep them relevant. But the latter does not necessarily follow from the former. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/27 "2009-04-17T15:50:01Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > They’re calling it a “legend.” Apparently no such thing exists in the document. No, it’s there. The key point is that both Congress and the state legislature have to agree to any alteration of state boundaries. If Texas announces they’re splitting into five states – Congress still has to vote to admit each one to the Union. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/28 "2009-04-17T15:50:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, it’s there. The key point is that both Congress and the state legislature have to agree to any alteration of state boundaries. If Texas announces they’re splitting into five states – Congress still has to vote to admit each one to the Union. Sorry…I see where you’re looking now. I still say it’ll never happen. Not even with a republican majority. I just don’t see it happening. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/29 "2009-04-17T15:52:41Z")
Conversely, Congress can simply declare Delaware merged with Maryland for the sake of efficiency or anything else; both the MD and DE legislatures would have to agree. Hamilton wanted Congress to have the power to create, merge, dissolve, alter the states at will. But that was definitely a minority view at the Constitutional Convention. That clause was probably inserted in reaction. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/30 "2009-04-17T15:53:43Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m of a mind similar to Mosiers - don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. There needn’t be a civil war, because those states aren’t worth fighting for. I third the idea. The dark red states have pretty much been a drag on us trying to govern ourselves like a normal 1st world country for well over 150 years now. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/31 "2009-04-17T15:56:17Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Vegas would do badly as a city-state, surrounded by a foreign country. > > California would disintegrate, with large cities being “Leftland” and all the rural areas and the mountains being part of “Republicanada”. > > Most places would go like that. If you live in a big city, it’s easy to think that the majority of the world is like that… left leaning. The reality is that it’s terribly terribly mixed. It is very mixed, but if there was a Conservativalia, wouldn’t those who felt strongly that they did not fit in in America move? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/32 "2009-04-17T15:58:29Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Didn’t a lot of leftists in the Sixties do the same thing? I mean, Abbie Hoffman had an entire chapter in Steal This Book devoted to talking about different kinds of rifles and pistols and how to use them, etc. There’s even a paragraph where he’s like, “the Springfield, Mauser, Enfield, and Russian 7.62 rifles are all good buys at about 20 dollars.” HA! That line makes me chuckle to myself. But he pretty much spelled out explicitly that there should be a massive (and violent) overthrow of “the pig,” “the man,” “Amerika,” etc, and his philosophy was very, very popular. And the radical left cost them. The nice thing about radicals is that they make your moderates look reasonable. The dangerous thing about radicals is that your moderates might get too closely identified with them - which is what happened to the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/33 "2009-04-17T16:04:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m of a mind similar to Mosiers - don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. There needn’t be a civil war, because those states aren’t worth fighting for. All the same, it would be joyous to smell the mingled aroma of napalm and cheap teabags. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/34 "2009-04-17T16:13:40Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Vegas would do badly as a city-state, surrounded by a foreign country. > > California would disintegrate, with large cities being “Leftland” and all the rural areas and the mountains being part of “Republicanada”. > > Most places would go like that. If you live in a big city, it’s easy to think that the majority of the world is like that… left leaning. The reality is that it’s terribly terribly mixed. I think Salt Lake City, Ogden and Denver would stay blue while the rest of Utah and Colorado would go Wingnut Jesusland. Wyoming, Idaho and Montana would definitely go Nutland, probably Arizona and New Mexico too. I think most of the west coast would be liberal, especially Seattle, LA, San Francisco and Portland. Nutland would probably become a second-world country due to all the wealthy coastal cities isolating into liberal city-states with the harbors and shipping industries located there. Without the federal government around to help them, they couldn’t afford to build artificial harbors. Either that or a constant state of civil war. Not something I look forward to any more than relocating out of a mortgage. I don’t think it will ever come to this; family gahterings will continue to be “mom spouting crazy while the rest of us stare into our potato salad and shake our heads”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/35 "2009-04-17T16:19:28Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > All the same, it would be joyous to smell the mingled aroma of napalm and cheap teabags. Only in America, eh? Pity. ---
**Author:** ![spazattak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@spazattak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazattak)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/36 "2009-04-17T16:22:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Invoking the prospect of civil war implies that current issues are incredibly important. It implies that the Democrats are so horribly wrong that it’s worth destroying the country to oppose them. So vote for Republicans in the mid-term elections next year. > > What else are the Republicans going to say? _“Well, let’s give the Democrats a shot at running the country for a while and see how things go. If it doesn’t work out, you can vote us back in and we’ll take another shot at running things.”_ Not really inspiring. Inspiring? No.. Responsible, respectful and reasonable? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/37 "2009-04-17T16:32:12Z")
> [@spazattak](#): > > Responsible, respectful and reasonable? Yes. Nowadays, all three of those are anathema to most elected Republicans. Responsibility - for poor people. Respect - to people like us. Reason - no, faith, and those heathens aren’t really Americans. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/38 "2009-04-17T17:09:15Z")
This is the right wing equivalent of ‘I’m leaving the country and going to Canada/Europe!’. And the reaction here is the left wing equivalent of the right wingers taking such things seriously and blowing them out of proportion that we’ve seen during the previous administration. Carry on. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/39 "2009-04-17T17:24:09Z")
C’mon, X. The difference here is that Canada nonsense was from idiots like Alec Baldwin and such. Here we’re talking about Rick Perry and Tom Delay. I didn’t see Dick Gephardt or Pay Moynihan publicly stating they were planning to exit…stage left. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/40 "2009-04-17T17:27:33Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > This is the right wing equivalent of ‘I’m leaving the country and going to Canada/Europe!’. And the reaction here is the left wing equivalent of the right wingers taking such things seriously and blowing them out of proportion that we’ve seen during the previous administration. > > Carry on. > > -XT Were there widespread coordinated demonstrations around the message “we’re moving to Canada!”? Did the Liberal “news”-ish outlets regularly recommend this message to their viewers as having some validity? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381.md?page=3)