# Why are some right wing leaders and spokespeople toying with the idea of civil war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 17, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381 "2009-04-17T04:13:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/61 "2009-04-17T22:56:36Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I live in the alternative universe called ‘reality’. Not unless you are a recent immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![guyblond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@guyblond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guyblond)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/62 "2009-04-17T23:17:16Z")
If by succession they mean those states commonly referred to as “Jesus Land”, I’m all for it. In fact I’ll volunteer to participate in the political activism to help this come about. Now that I think about it, I wonder what would happen if a liberal group actually took this approach? Hmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/63 "2009-04-17T23:51:43Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I see no difference in the intensity, no. While the two response are different in type the differences are more along the lines of the philosophic difference between left and right wing nutballs and what they feel is important. Since I don’t take talk of a civil war seriously, pointing out how much more dangerous it would be compared to similar (ludicrous) left wing civil disobedience is really not meaningful to me. All it shows is that you take this kind of thing at least marginally serious…while I do not. > > My example of the supposed left wingers flight to Canada was, of course, not the sum total of the nutball fringe on the left wings responses during the past administration either…there were hints of more violent actions as well, if one were of a bent to take such rhetoric seriously. Wow, your judgement is seriously flawed. > [@xtisme](#): > > To me they are reacting exactly like the Republicans did when THEY took control of the House and Senate and then (narrowly) won the presidency in 2000…they think that they have ‘won’, that their ideology has obviously prevailed against the Evil Other Side™, and that now the American people are firmly in their corner. Ah, I see. You’re simply insane. Does Harry Reid really seem to you like a strong leader? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/64 "2009-04-18T02:04:56Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Ah, I see. You’re simply insane. Does Harry Reid really seem to you like a strong leader? [/QUOTE] Did I mention Harry Reid?? I must have missed that. > [@](#): > > Wow, your judgement is seriously flawed. Yes, and you have done a wonderful job of proving my judgment is flawed and I’m insane. I guess the round goes to you! -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/65 "2009-04-18T02:06:05Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Not unless you are a recent immigrant. [/QUOTE] No, I’ve inhabited reality for all of my life and have no desire to immigrate to your universe. I leave it to you. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/66 "2009-04-18T02:14:04Z")
News flash: **Der Trihs** and **xtisme** have trouble seeing eye-to-eye. Film at eleven. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/67 "2009-04-18T02:53:58Z")
Shocking… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/68 "2009-04-18T03:23:34Z")
Yeah, who’d have guessed? I still think you’re wrong, though, X. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/69 "2009-04-18T03:25:48Z")
I can accept that…and it wouldn’t be the first time if it’s the case. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/70 "2009-04-18T03:47:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > News flash: **Der Trihs** and **xtisme** have trouble seeing eye-to-eye. Film at eleven. Will we find out which one is rubber and which one is glue? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/71 "2009-04-18T04:02:44Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Did I mention Harry Reid?? I must have missed that. Yes, what was I thinking, when you discussed the parallel (in your mind) situation of Republicans gaining control of Congress to Democrats gaining control of Congress. Naturally the Majority Leader in the Senate is not involved there at all. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/72 "2009-04-18T04:12:19Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Tom Delay, former House Majority Leader, [outlines a scenario whereupon Texas could secede](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/04/delay_offers_new_theory_of_texas_secession.php). This followed the remarks of Governor Perry of Texas who observed that while, “There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it, …But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, who knows what may come of that.” > > So the Texas GOP position is that maybe we’ll have a civil war and maybe we won’t, depending upon whether the Feds rub them the wrong way. Who knows? [Cite](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/04/perry-dont-get-the-wrong-impression--no-secession-for-now.php?ref=fp2). So _GASP_ the Civil War was really over State’s Rights after all :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/73 "2009-04-18T06:20:35Z")
> [@](#): > > **Hentor the Barbarian** : I’m of a mind similar to Mosiers - don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. There needn’t be a civil war, because those states aren’t worth fighting for. So if we look at the [Purple States" Map of America](http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2008/) (which is a more accurate reflection of how the voting went in 2008) which states aren’t worth fighting for? Nashville helps to vote in the best President we’ve had since Lincoln and you want to send us out with Tennessee because East Tennessee is so damned red? Give us a break. Remember, a state can be “red” by a margin of a few votes. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/74 "2009-04-18T13:23:52Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Nashville helps to vote in the best President we’ve had since Lincoln and you want to send us out with Tennessee because East Tennessee is so damned red? Give us a break. I hate to break it to you, but Nashville didn’t help at all. > [@Zoe](#): > > Remember, a state can be “red” by a margin of a few votes. Yes, but that wasn’t the case in TN. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/75 "2009-04-18T16:10:53Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > Are rights being trampled? I just dont get this outrage, truly. Obama hasn’t led us into a war yet or anything has he? Did his policies cause this depression? wTF??? My assessment: the only true motivation is defeating, by any measure, Democrats in the next election and then unseating Obama. It does not matter how; it only matters that it be so. Any lie, any filth, any societal collateral damage, any civil unrest, even the shattering of the Union itself is justified: the Right _must_ reassume power at any cost. That a majority of this country’s citizens recently believed that Saddam Hussein was directly linked to 9/11 has not been forgotten by those who would shape history to their own ends. Allow the lab-crafted bullshit to percolate through the national consciousness—already proven severely learning-disabled and prone to regular bouts of drooling dementia—and I’ve no doubt that in short time, Obama himself will be cited as the primary origin of the economic crisis, and that “fact” that will hang like a summertime fart in the minds of millions of voters as they ready to cast their ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/76 "2009-04-18T17:10:05Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > Are rights being trampled? I just dont get this outrage, truly. Obama hasn’t led us into a war yet or anything has he? Did his policies cause this depression? wTF??? But Obama bowed to a Saudi prince! His communist attitudes will ensure doom and gloom for us all! And everyone that voted for him sucks and wants to see this country fail! Or at least, that’s the feeling I get from crazed conservatives if the conversation at Easter dinner is anything to go by. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/77 "2009-04-18T17:31:27Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Didn’t a lot of leftists in the Sixties do the same thing? I mean, Abbie Hoffman had an entire chapter in Steal This Book devoted to talking about different kinds of rifles and pistols and how to use them, etc. There’s even a paragraph where he’s like, “the Springfield, Mauser, Enfield, and Russian 7.62 rifles are all good buys at about 20 dollars.” HA! That line makes me chuckle to myself. But he pretty much spelled out explicitly that there should be a massive (and violent) overthrow of “the pig,” “the man,” “Amerika,” etc, and his philosophy was very, very popular. Every side has its wingnuts and loons. Nothing new there. I think the difference here is the rhetoric being taken up by both the MSM and even members of Congress, governors and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/78 "2009-04-18T17:35:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It makes 'em feel tough, like every guy’s fantasy that he could be Batman under the right circumstances. I totally could be . . . if I were prepared. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/79 "2009-04-18T17:46:31Z")
Not Batman. More like Mike Hammer - driven by base revenge against pure evil, and the knowledge that one must _become_ that evil to meet it, whether that means horsewhipping disloyal females, setting fire to a houseful of fresh-made corpses, or making sure some poor slob has no face left for next-of-kin to identify. Mike has been compared to the [hammer of God](http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/archives/199807/0109.html), and there’s something deeply resonant in that metaphor. Some primal, Old Testament, feudal-Celtic vow to purifying violence and the healing power of sadism. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/80 "2009-04-18T18:04:28Z")
All I have to say is that a party that advocates secession has lost all pretenses to being the party of Lincoln. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381.md?page=5)