# Why Are Stupid-Looking People Stupid? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 26, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674 "2009-09-26T20:07:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/21 "2009-09-27T23:54:30Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I’m not gay, and thus don’t have true “gaydar,” but I swear: I see guys that _have_ to be gay because they look like they’ve engaged in oral sex since their teens; there’s a certain mouth formation that simply screams (at risk of being grotesque) “dick sucker.” What’s interesting is that I can’t similarly identify women’s facial features that identify them as enthusiastic participants. Without actual information on the sexual habits of the people involved, these supposed “observations” are completely worthless. In fact your second statement implies that you are unable to identify such habits at all, since there shouldn’t be much of a difference in facial structure between males and females who engage in fellatio. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/22 "2009-09-28T00:03:11Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > I was waiting for someone to say something better than I can, but that’s fucked up. You can’t go down the street and think that the people passing by with peculiar mouths are all faggots. [Moderator note] **Alex** , there’s no need to phrase your comments using such derogatory and insulting terms. Don’t do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/23 "2009-09-28T00:04:09Z")
My one thought on this (without clouding the freshness of said thought by reading everyone else’s replies) is that a brain that is busy thinking happens to cause certain facial muscles to activate. A brain that isn’t thinking, doesn’t. Having said that. I tend to decide upon someone’s level of intelligence by what they do and say rather than how they look. But sometimes it’s [rather easy](http://api.ning.com/files/NQ3NVO49Wuhi*fTgpLup7wLombat8xd1E5cKKGpdNsdYj17gfznbu41NRj6I2adC3C-iBxNemrNJm-rYZHjL*NNjtH9xG3Sf/hillbillies.jpg) to pre-judge! ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/24 "2009-09-28T00:14:46Z")
Beaten! (the image. I should have known someone would post it first) ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/25 "2009-09-28T00:31:07Z")
> [@Pyper](#): > > My theory is that mentally retarded people or people of very low intelligence do not learn “facial posture” like typical people. Most of us spend a lot of time in front of the mirror. We practice facial expressions from a very early age. We are concerned with how we look to others. Mentally retarded people do not have this level of social awareness. They are either unconcerned with or unaware of how their expressions look to others, so they have that slack-jawed, wide-eyed look, or some other atypical facial expression. If what you’re saying is true, and it sounds like a good point, then why would it apply only to the stupid? You think all smart (incl. geeky,etc) people spend so much time in front of mirrors? > [@](#): > > Alex, there’s no need to phrase your comments using such derogatory and insulting terms. Insulting to Balthisar? Yes, I’m sorry, there was no need to accuse you of homophobia. But even if you make your presumptions benignly, it can still be hurtful and unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/26 "2009-09-28T01:00:54Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > I’ve noticed that there is a distinct facial appearance that is associated with being stupid, however it’s not entirely clear to me whether this is due to their inherent facial structure or simply an observed facial expression. … or that looking [what our culture assumes to be] stupid induces behaviour to match. ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/27 "2009-09-28T01:03:27Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > If what you’re saying is true, and it sounds like a good point, then why would it apply only to the stupid? You think all smart (incl. geeky,etc) people spend so much time in front of mirrors? Even geeks look at themselves in the mirror with an eye for what other people see. I’m not talking about preening and posing, just a judgement of one’s own appearance. Mentally retarded people don’t have the skills of self-examination that typical people do. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/28 "2009-09-28T01:08:16Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > This is by no means definitive, but my dad said he learned (during mental health training in the 1960s, so take with a HUGE pinch of salt) that over the course of many years, the facial expressions made by people with complex emotional lives shape the muscles of their face; similarly those who are somewhat uncomprehending or placid tend to remain neutral and “flabby”. Similarly, people with mental illnesses who pull “unusual” expressions over many years tend to shape their facial muscles to give them a similarly “unusual” look. This is vaguely related but according to Daniel Goleman in his book ‘social intelligence’, the reason that some older couples look like each other is because emotional rapport (which causes people to mimic each other’s facial and physical expressions when communicating) causes similar facial muscles to strengthen and weaken in tandem over a period of years. He even said that when comparing photos of couples who became more and more physically similar in the face vs those who were less similar, the ones who were similar had happier marriages due to the higher quality of communication and rapport. So its not an unrealistic possibility that lack of comprehension could lead to fewer facial expressions, which over time would be noticeable. But studies would be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/29 "2009-09-28T01:31:31Z")
I have always been able to infer a lot about a person’s intelligence and personality by their face. I’ve rarely guessed wrong, and 99% of my friends are people I whose faces I looked at once, and I wanted to be their friend. I find it disturbing and don’t really understand how it is so… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/30 "2009-09-28T01:34:35Z")
I had a bit of an abrupt awakening a month or so ago. There’s a fellow I see at church who, based on his appearance, I had always assumed had some form of mental handicap. But this summer, I happened to be sitting at the same table as him at the church picnic, and in actual conversation, he seemed perfectly normal. And it’s funny, but when I’ve seen him since, he hasn’t looked unintelligent at all, which probably proves that it was all just confirmation bias in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![CT\_Damsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CT\_Damsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CT_Damsel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/31 "2009-09-28T02:30:35Z")
> [@Savannah](#): > > [These fellows](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2il26hgSIcA/SdD7HjM-oJI/AAAAAAAAAGU/EA9EPOTdqoE/s320/south-african-twins.jpg) don’t look like Rhodes scholars, bless their hearts. > > That’s a pretty obvious example, but it was the first thing that came to mind. > [@Lobsang](#): > > My one thought on this (without clouding the freshness of said thought by reading everyone else’s replies) is that a brain that is busy thinking happens to cause certain facial muscles to activate. A brain that isn’t thinking, doesn’t. > > Having said that. I tend to decide upon someone’s level of intelligence by what they do and say rather than how they look. > > But sometimes it’s [rather easy](http://api.ning.com/files/NQ3NVO49Wuhi*fTgpLup7wLombat8xd1E5cKKGpdNsdYj17gfznbu41NRj6I2adC3C-iBxNemrNJm-rYZHjL*NNjtH9xG3Sf/hillbillies.jpg) to pre-judge! Who are they??? How did you both happen to have the same picture? :(:eek:😕 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/32 "2009-09-28T02:40:01Z")
> [@CT\_Damsel](#): > > Who are they??? > > How did you both happen to have the same picture? > :(:eek:😕 [Google Image search](http://images.google.com/images?q=hillbilly&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi)-hillbilly. 2nd picture. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/33 "2009-09-28T02:43:37Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [Google Image search](http://images.google.com/images?q=hillbilly&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi)-hillbilly. > > 2nd picture. That’s how I found it. It actually turns up quite a lot on the internet. ETA: The first time I ever saw it was on a website showcasing similarly handsome people. ---
**Author:** ![CT\_Damsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CT\_Damsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CT_Damsel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/34 "2009-09-28T03:11:47Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > That’s how I found it. It actually turns up quite a lot on the internet. > ETA: The first time I ever saw it was on a website showcasing similarly handsome people. Why am I certain I will have a nightmare tonight with banjo music in the background? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/35 "2009-09-28T04:41:47Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > Insulting to Balthisar? Yes, I’m sorry, there was no need to accuse you of homophobia. But even if you make your presumptions benignly, it can still be hurtful and unfair. [Modding] To clarify, I was referring not only to telling **Balthisar** that his attitude was “fucked up,” but also to referring to gay males as “faggots,” which is regarded by many (probably most) people as offensive. You could have just said “gay.” You have an unfortunate habit of using derogatory terms in your posts, even when you don’t intend to be offensive. Let’s try to use less potentially inflammatory phrasing in the future. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/36 "2009-09-28T14:32:43Z")
> [@scm1001](#): > > and we all know that nazis could tell that jewish people were of lower intelligence simply by their facial features > > (though presumably one didn’t need great intelligence to run international banking cartels aimed at destabilizing the german economy) 1. Can I call Goodwin on this one? 2. The Nazis threw nasty stereotypes at the Jews by the shovelfull, with the certainness that if you apply everything, something will stick. Thus, the Jews were lazy and dumb, sucking on the German welfare system to the detriment of good German families, and at the same time, more industrious, clever, smart and tricky than the good honest Germans they defrauded, tricked and pushed out of the market with their insanly hard work. 3. The Nazis had a complex race chart with characteristics not only for Jews, but for Northern (including Aryan), Southern Europeans, Slavics and other races, based on not only eye and hair colour, but also on head shape and similar. (And there are many anecdotes, how the teacher at school teaching “race biology” calls one child forward to measure the head shape and size with forceps, and declare how intelligent this blond boy must be, it then turns out to be the Jew). Of course, believers in ideology never let facts get in the way. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/37 "2009-09-28T14:53:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > To clarify, I was referring not only to telling **Balthisar** that his attitude was “fucked up…” My attitude is “fucked up”; I’m simply reporting an observation. Certainly as with many observations, there may be some self-selected confirmation bias. It’s not like I don’t know gay people. ---
**Author:** ![pan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@pan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pan1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/38 "2009-09-28T15:38:23Z")
There’s a difference between facial features and facial expression. Barring cases of deformity - which may hinder brain function as well, you can certainly tell a lot about a person from their expression. Intellectual capacity? Probably not. That they are thoughtful? Certainly. As for intelligent people with stupid looks: Einstein, Lincoln, Poe, Stephen King,… (We don’t see it in Einstein because we’re familiar with his visage and equate it to genius, but in his time, he looked nuts) The thing with all the above studies - there was no control. There were too many variables going in, any of which could have affected the outcome. Maybe gay men take better care of their skin, on average, than most…Maybe that military haircut says something about agression… Other of the linked studies simply showed that people inferred information about people from their features without actually verifying their accuracy. But its all really just a big duh moment. Hey that guy that always has a scowly expression is angry… ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/39 "2009-09-28T16:41:27Z")
> [@CT\_Damsel](#): > > Why am I certain I will have a nightmare tonight with banjo music in the background? > :eek: Don’t play Fallout 3 expansion Pack - Point Lookout. Some [nightmare inducing hill-billies](http://xbox360media.gamespy.com/xbox360/image/article/990/990145/fallout-3-point-lookout-20090602072058809.jpg) in that game. Not just because of how they look, but how difficult they are to kill. ---
**Author:** ![blood63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@blood63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blood63)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674/40 "2009-09-28T20:13:10Z")
Right on! This guy looks like a total retard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-stupid-looking-people-stupid/511674.md?page=3)