# Why are Swedes so much richer in the USA than in Sweden? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761 "2012-09-15T04:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/41 "2012-09-15T16:57:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A Scandinavian economist once said to Milton Friedman, ‘In Scandinavia, we have no poverty’. Milton Friedman replied, ‘That’s interesting, because in America, among Scandinavians, we have no poverty, either’. Indeed, the poverty rate for Americans with Swedish ancestry is only 6.7 per cent: half the US average (US Census).\*\* I’m not sure why you included this exchange, because it doesn’t really help your argument. The overall poverty rate for Sweden - including people who aren’t ethnic Scandinavians - is [2.5%](http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=POVERTY). ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/42 "2012-09-15T17:05:25Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Where do Swedes (or Nowegians) form a significantly higher portion of the US population? Minnesota. Minnesota is a breadbasket state, has massive iron ore resources, expansive forests, and shipping via both the Great Lakes and the Mississippi. Quite apart from whatever historical cultural influences they may have, the simple fact is that they landed up in a land of plenty, and (the USA being what it is), they do not suffer the discrimination that is often suffered by people who are brown or black. > > Anyone have comparative immigration stats since the 1880s or so that compares Swedish immigration to Minnesota against Swedish immigration to Alabama? Not exactly what you’re asking, but here’s a map from the 2000 census showing Swedish ancestry. [Link.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Swedish_Americans_2000_Census.svg) All in Minnesota. None in Alabama. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/43 "2012-09-15T17:11:40Z")
Somewhat related, but cool anyway: [Surname map.](http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/02/geography/usa-surnames-interactive) The Ericksons, Olsons, Larsons, Petersons, Carlson, etc. are heavily concentrated in MN. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/44 "2012-09-15T18:00:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s what Swedes think, I’m sure, but do they realize how much it impacts middle class earnings as well? They aren’t oompa-loompas you know, cosseted and protected in a closed system. > [@](#): > > The idea of a more equal society built on taxing the rich has always been a fantasy. In the real world, middle class taxation is where you get the money for a generous social state. As I suspect is the case in Sweden as well. The tax take is high from the Swedish middle classes but the benefits it buys are extensive. > [@](#): > > I can only conclude that Swedes are actually unaware of the income gap between their middle class and ours. I suspect they are smart enough to both know it, and that straightforward dollar for dollar comparisons are pretty much meaningless and therefore choose to continue with their model due to the more equitable outcomes for the majority of the society. Would I rather be a median, middle class earner in Sweden or the USA? no contest. I suspect the Swedes who agree with me remain there, those that don’t choose to emigrate. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/45 "2012-09-15T18:01:59Z")
FWIW, test scores work the same way: European American students score better on standardized tests than Europeans; Asian American students do better than Asians. I suspect African Ameican students do better than Africans, but those countries don’t participate. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/46 "2012-09-15T18:17:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/if-swedens-big-welfare-state-is-superior-to-americas-medium-welfare-state-then-why-do-swedes-in-america-earn-far-more-than-swedes-in-sweden/](http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/if-swedens-big-welfare-state-is-superior-to-americas-medium-welfare-state-then-why-do-swedes-in-america-earn-far-more-than-swedes-in-sweden/) First off, Cato is not a good source, and life is too short to invest time in their stuff. > [@adaher](#): > > The 4.4 million or so Americans with Swedish origins are considerably richer than average Americans, as are other immigrant groups from Scandinavia. If Americans with Swedish ancestry were to form their own country, their per capita GDP would be $56,900, more than $10,000 above the income of the average American. This is also far above Swedish GDP per capita, at $36,600. Swedes living in the USA are thus approximately 53 per cent more wealthy than Swedes (excluding immigrants) in their native country (OECD, 2009; US Census database). It should be noted that those Swedes who migrated to the USA, predominately in the nineteenth century, were anything but the elite. Rather, it was often those escaping poverty and famine. Well, in singling out the descendants of Scandinavians in the US, you have conveniently eliminated every economically distressed or disadvantaged ethincity, _as well as everyone whose family situation hasn’t been sufficiently stable all the way back to the late 1800s to know where their ancestors came from_. So thats a massivly above-average selection. Also, you’ve picked a population that clusters in a resource rich, economically advantaged area. If you compare that to Swedes living in Sweden, you are comparing at an entire country, including the people who has unstable family backgrounds, and all the ethicities. Sweden has nearly exactly the same number of foreigners living there as the USA does. > [@adaher](#): > > I’ve long tried to make the case that one of the advantages of the American system over other nations is that opportunities are greater here. An average person can get pretty wealthy here, and the experience of Swedish immigrants in the US is pretty demonstrative of that. [Lifetime opportunities are vastly greater in Scandinavia](http://www.oecd.org/tax/publicfinanceandfiscalpolicy/45002641.pdf). The Anglosphere UK/USA has lower economic opportunites than most of the first world. > [@adaher](#): > > But what I wonder, is it really the welfare state that holds Sweden back, or is it geography? The Swedish community in the US had a long time to accumulate wealth in relative peace and prosperity. Sweden didn’t get involved in any major wars in the same period, but was always living in a pretty tough neighborhood up until fairly recently. Should we expect Swedish Swedes to close the gap with American Swedes over time, or will the wealth gap continue to grow? And if there is a problem in Sweden, is it the welfare state or something else? Well, I’d say your assumption that the gap is in favor of the USA is unwarranted. You comparison is obviously skewered. I don’t know what the stats for “Swedes in Sweden who can trace their family in Sweden back to the 1800s” but I suspect they would be rather good. If you in addition do a selection in one of the more prosperous districts in Sweden… I’d also say that the notion that the welfare state might hold Sweden back doesn’t pass the reality check, as welfare states tend to heavily cluster in the top brackets of wealthy nations. Also, the notion that Sweden is somehow held back doesn’t really hold up. [Swedes in Sweden are simply better off than Americans.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income) Note that the difference between Sweden and the USA is less than the average cost of health insurance. Adding in all the other advantages… > [@adaher](#): > > Those studies don’t compare apples to apples either. They use income quintiles or quartiles. The problem with that is that Sweden’s top quintile is very low. If you make $80,000 in Sweden, you are comparatively rich, specifically in the top 10%. That’s a pretty low bar to achieve. The lowest 10% is also better off than in the US, making about $12,000/yr. If one group of people has to gain $20,000 in income or so to move up a quintile while the other group has to gain $40,000, of course the former group will appear to be more mobile. I don’t see why the reward difference after you have moved is relevant? If you are born the son of an alcoholic sigle mother, and aspire to become a neurosurgeon, how much is the difficulty affected by what a neurosurgeon makes after you’ve bone it? > [@adaher](#): > > That could explain why Swedes are richer than other American ethnic groups, it doesn’t explain why they are richer than Swedes in Sweden. Because you’re comparing an American selection healvily skewered towards the top with an average selection in Sweden. Personally, I find it more interesting to note how Sweden and America have kept pace through the decades. Both came out of WW2 relativly unscathed, with the competition bombed to rubble. Boths spend the next 40-50 years as the top successful counties. And both declined when the competition got its act together. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/47 "2012-09-15T18:21:46Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > As I suspect is the case in Sweden as well. The tax take is high from the Swedish middle classes but the benefits it buys are extensive. It is worth noting that the greater economic equality in Scandinavia means a greater percentage of the population are middle class, and the greater gender equality means a bigger percentage of the middle class are wage-earning taxpayers. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/48 "2012-09-15T19:10:21Z")
GDP per capita was around [60% higher](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp_per_cap_in_190-economy-gdp-per-capita-1900) in the US than Sweden in 1900. This was probably because of greater natural resources and the benefits of a larger domestic market. Swedes who migrated around that time were moving to a richer country and found an ideal niche in states like Minnesota with lots of natural resources and relatively small populations. It’s not surprising that they became richer than the average Swede and remained that way even aside from selection effects. Incidentally the gap between the US and Sweden is a lot smaller than in 1900. I don’t know much about Swedish economic history but I am guessing their system was pretty close to the US in 1900; i.e. a market economy without much government intervention. Over the subsequent 100+ years Sweden evolved into a welfare state more rapidly than the US and yet closed the per capita income gap. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/49 "2012-09-15T19:17:39Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I’d like some definition for “Swedish-American,” please. I’m 1/8 Swedish. Do I count? What about mom (¼)? I wouldn’t think so, since I can guarantee that there’s 0% of my culture that connects me to Swedish culture (unless shared with general US culture), and very little if anything for my mother. > > I suspect the data relies on self-identification as Swedish. If so, that suggests it’s not so much about _being_ Swedish as self-consciously identifying as such, which might include social values conducive to success (work ethic, strong investment in one’s community, for all I know Lutheranism and bland food). There will be some confusion between Norwegians and Swedes in this country. I think most Norwegians would have had a good idea of their specific nation of origin, but many came to this country when Norway was not an independent country, and may have had their country of origin listed as Sweden. I doubt that would have stood in the way of intermarriage between Swedes and Norwegians in this country either. So many Swedish-Americans may not be able to distinquish their exact heritage. There were also a number of Danes thrown in the group, and some of the name spellings varied as well so you can use ‘sen’ and ‘son’ as distinquishing factors either. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/50 "2012-09-15T20:00:52Z")
> [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > My guess is that the original Swedish immigrants were educated and skilled. They never had to flee famine or unrest like the Irish or German immigrants, who were mostly unskilled laborers. So it is not that the Swedes were more economically mobile, but they had a massive head start. I don’t think they were particularly skilled or educated; many came over to work on farms, or, in the case of many women, to work as household help. But they did come at a time when public education in this country was on the upswing, and they have now had a century or so to assimilate. This could be said of most other European immigrants in the same era. There’s nary a trickle of immigration from Europe today, so there are virtually no “just off the boat” Swedish immigrants who still have to struggle to make their way.\* Truth be told, I did once meet a Danish immigrant who had overstayed his visa, but was hoping to be able to stay in the country. This puzzled me, for I thought, “Denmark? Where everything seems to be just hunky dory to my left wing social democratic world view, reinforced by a considerable amount of exposure to Western European culture?” Of course, this was in Santa Monica, and the climate can be a definite draw. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/51 "2012-09-15T20:07:14Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > In fact I wonder how much that average USA figure is skewed by relatively new Swedish immigrants seeking big bucks? I would like to know this too, with regard to all of Europe. I don’t think the push and pull factors are nearly as powerful as they were a century ago. For those immigrants who still do come from that part of the world, I think it’s safe to say they are the “alpha” performers who would rise to the top no matter where they live. For those not wanting to bus tables or pick lettuce, we’re probably as much a “gated community” as Europe is, from the perspective of a would be immigrant who does some ordinary job and would like to do the same here. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/52 "2012-09-15T21:51:51Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Well, in singling out the descendants of Scandinavians in the US, you have conveniently eliminated every economically distressed or disadvantaged ethincity, _as well as everyone whose family situation hasn’t been sufficiently stable all the way back to the late 1800s to know where their ancestors came from_. So thats a massivly above-average selection. I thought about another factor as I was pondering this last night too. I imagine that the demographics of this self-selected “Swedish” American group contain quite a lot of 60-year olds, who are only 1 or 2 generations removed from the big migration wave and so both have a much better chance of being just 1 plain ethnicity and of knowing exatly where the boat their gramps got off came from. Older folks generally have more personal wealth than younger folks, and higher incomes (before they retire … but then they start dying off and becoming a smaller proportion of the stats again). So there’s another factor that’s going to skew the data high. How many modern teenagers with two beans in their pocket and a part time job at McDonalds are putting “Swedish” on the census form? Not many, I’d guess. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/53 "2012-09-15T23:02:38Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Really? Not on that table. Or [this](http://www1.eur.nl/fsw/happiness/hap_nat/nat_fp.php?mode=6) one. Or [this](http://www.happyplanetindex.org/data/) one. > > Though I’m open to the possibility there’s something we could learn from Nigeria in this regard. I’m not claiming to know the contents of every poll ever taken, and apologize if anyone thought I was making such a foolish claim. But it’s not unfounded, there are definitely sources out there supporting the idea that Nigeria is strangely happy despite all their problems: [link](http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2011/jan/04/nigerians-top-optimism-poll) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/54 "2012-09-15T23:04:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Maybe America as a whole privileges Whites over other groups more than Sweden does, and by American standards, you can’t get much Whiter than Scandiwegians, so they have been the beneficiaries of more than the usual amount of societal privilege? For someone who I’ve seen flip out over anyone saying anything remotely negative about South Africa, I think a post like this is especially hypocritical and quite honestly shameful given it is GD. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/55 "2012-09-16T01:41:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It might. It could be that a hundred years ago, the Swedes who wanted to live in a capitalist system left Sweden and immigrated to America. If immigration hadn’t been a ready option, they might have stayed in Sweden and pushed it in a more capitalist direction. It was actually the opposite, though. During the late-19th and early-20th century when the bulk of Swedish immigrants came to the US, Sweden was an extremely stratified society with virtually no social safety net whatsoever. In fact, the earliest Swedish social reforms were specifically designed to stem the tide of emigration by copying institutions that existed in the US. The Swedes who were emigrating were the ones who WANTED a more egalitarian state, and so the Swedish state first started moving in that direction to try to keep them. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/56 "2012-09-16T01:54:09Z")
> [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > My guess is that the original Swedish immigrants were educated and skilled. They never had to flee famine or unrest like the Irish or German immigrants, who were mostly unskilled laborers. So it is not that the Swedes were more economically mobile, but they had a massive head start. Some were skilled at farming, some were skilled at logging, and some were skilled at fishing. Those were the skills that were needed in Minnesota in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/57 "2012-09-16T02:45:16Z")
The real answer to this question has nothing to do with socialism versus capitalism. It is very simple: good-looking people are better paid, and we ethnic Swedes are a good looking bunch. When we’re among the vast number of “uggos” (that’s the scientific term for Danes and other non-Scandanavians) in America, we seem even more hot. Swedes in Sweden aren’t beautiful, they are just average. [Cite on beauty’s perks.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2061405/It-pays-pretty-Professor-s-20-year-study-reveals-good-looking-employees-paid-better-perks.html) Thread over. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/58 "2012-09-16T03:10:52Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The real answer to this question has nothing to do with socialism versus capitalism. It is very simple: good-looking people are better paid, and we ethnic Swedes are a good looking bunch. You have obviously never met my Swedish relatives. Then again, perhaps that’s why they left Sweden. Maybe “the ugliest woman in Värmland” translates to “meh, not too far below average” in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/59 "2012-09-16T05:07:17Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Happiness is an amorphous thing, one of the consistently happiest countries in the world based on polling like this is Nigeria. How many people from either Sweden or the United States would actually want to live in Nigeria? (And I’ve actually been to Nigeria, Ghana, and Kenya–some of the nicest sub-Saharan countries and I would not want to live permanently in any of them.) Nigeria is a nice country-- so long as you stay out of the north. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761/60 "2012-09-16T05:29:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The real answer to this question has nothing to do with socialism versus capitalism. It is very simple: good-looking people are better paid, and we ethnic Swedes are a good looking bunch. When we’re among the vast number of “uggos” (that’s the scientific term for Danes and other non-Scandanavians) in America, we seem even more hot. Swedes in Sweden aren’t beautiful, they are just average. [Cite on beauty’s perks.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2061405/It-pays-pretty-Professor-s-20-year-study-reveals-good-looking-employees-paid-better-perks.html) > > Thread over. This would also explain the long running economic rivalry between Sweden and Brazil. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-swedes-so-much-richer-in-the-usa-than-in-sweden/634761.md?page=4)