# Why are tenors--not baritones or basses--the reigning kings of the male opera world?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [March 9, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654 "2006-03-09T05:43:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/1 "2006-03-09T05:43:44Z")
The male operatic archtype seems to be manly, virile, the quintessential man’s man. So why does the tenor get so many starring roles, while the baritone and bass singers typically–though not always–take a back seat to him?
Lower-pitched male voices seem more associated with “manliness” in Western cultures, but this isn’t so on the stage. Is it largely because the tenor voice carries better? Can it really be argued that a tenor is more “dramatic” sounding than a baritone or bass? Ever hear Sam Ramey in his prime? Damn.
I understand the appeal of the soprano and mezzo soprano. Please connect the dots for this opera flyweight.
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### Author:  [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/2 "2006-03-09T05:52:30Z")
They tend to get the romantic roles in opera. Perhaps that helps?
Or perhaps it’s simply a case of numbers. I’m not familar with the world of opera but I do have years of experience in the world of choral music. Tenors are simply rarer than baritones/basses. I don’t know why, but that’s just how it is. In any group of singers the woman will split something like 55/45 soprano/alto. The men will split 70/30 bass/tenor.
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/3 "2006-03-09T05:56:51Z")
Because it’s the voice of youth and beauty. The romantic leads tend to be juveniles and ingenues; the lower registers tend to be older characters.
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/4 "2006-03-09T06:17:36Z")
But we basses get to play the villain.
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### Author:  [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/5 "2006-03-09T12:14:32Z")
I’m wondering if there isn’t a… well, I don’t know the word for it, but another reason. Tenors and altos just sound better to me. It doesn’t matter if it’s a person singing, or an instrument, or whatever. Play in that range of notes and you’re more likely to get my attention.
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### Author:  [@Fortean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fortean)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/6 "2006-03-09T12:24:54Z")
I heard a story once (probably an urban legend) that young girls screams at a Beatles concert registered as almost twice as loud when the young lads sung falsetto. Anyway the point of my telling this story is that ladies love the high notes. We LOVE them. They evoke high emotion, sensitivity, yearning, strength and willingness to concede an argument. A man willing to enter a lady’s register may be up to entering other things, if you know what I mean, and I think you do. A bad-boy bass, on occasion, will hit the spot, but crikey, from his grumpy low notes, you just KNOW he won’t be the one to sleep in the wet spot.
YMMV.
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### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/7 "2006-03-09T12:32:12Z")
> [@Fortean](#):
>
> I heard a story once (probably an urban legend) that young girls screams at a Beatles concert registered as almost twice as loud when the young lads sung falsetto. Anyway the point of my telling this story is that ladies love the high notes. We LOVE them. They evoke high emotion, sensitivity, yearning, strength and willingness to concede an argument. A man willing to enter a lady’s register may be up to entering other things, if you know what I mean, and I think you do. A bad-boy bass, on occasion, will hit the spot, but crikey, from his grumpy low notes, you just KNOW he won’t be the one to sleep in the wet spot.
>
> YMMV.
MM most definitely Vs. I prefer the lower registers – I like baritones better than tenors, altos more than sopranos, I prefer the cello to the violin, etc. Sexiest voice I’ve ever heard belongs to a friend of mine – it’s a baritone you want to spread all over your … um, what were we talking about?
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### Author:  [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/8 "2006-03-09T12:53:15Z")
Heck, I was in a performance of Bach’s St. Matthew’s Passion, and we choral women were practically ready to throw our hotel keys (had we had any) to the deep baritones! SERIOUSLY yummy.
Maybe it’s a generational thing, but I think women of **Twickster** ’s and my age prefer baritones, at least for classical music. Pop, unfortunately, hasn’t seen a serious bass since, maybe (it’s a little iffy, he’s on the high side for a baritone), Jim Morrison (unless you want to count Bowser of Sha Na Na).
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### Author:  [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/9 "2006-03-09T16:08:05Z")
Remember that the Tenor was used as a replacement (Ultimately) for the Castrati of the Baroque era. For some reason or other, it was decided that the leading roles went to the higher voices – this from who knows when? Basically, I’m a lower register lover (altos, Baritones, Basses, Cello, Bass, Viola even and give me an English Horn over an oboe any day.)
Basses and Altos were given character roles, and villain roles. It is a tradition that has stayed true to form for centuries now.
Why? Who can say? It is what it is.
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### Author:  [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/10 "2006-03-09T16:44:37Z")
> [@FlyingRamenMonster](#):
>
> I’m wondering if there isn’t a… well, I don’t know the word for it, but another reason. Tenors and altos just sound better to me. It doesn’t matter if it’s a person singing, or an instrument, or whatever. Play in that range of notes and you’re more likely to get my attention.
I think you’re onto something here.
[commences speaking out of his ass… figuratively]
There are certain ranges that the human ear is more attuned to; that sound the most clear and crisp. Perhaps that range (tenor/alto-ish) falls within that frequency range more often than not. Certainly the pitches of low bass notes are more challenging to even distinguish from one another (as the frequency difference between lower notes are dramatically less than the frequency difference between higher notes; the relationships are logarithmic). Bass tones can be muddy and unclear because of this. Also, the natural vibrations of the voice can further muddy the sound we ultimately hear.
When I get home I can look it up, but I’m pretty sure that I have in a book somewhere some information regarding this.
[/CSOOHA…F]
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/11 "2006-03-09T16:50:56Z")
What can I say? We tenors are just naturally sexy. 😃
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### Author:  [@Figaro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Figaro)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/12 "2006-03-09T17:08:33Z")
Operatic bass, here…
The short answer to this question (and the parallel question of why sopranos are far more popular than mezzo-sopranos and contraltos in the opera world) is pretty simple: **the visceral thrill of high notes.**
Disregarding it’s many other aspects for the moment (drama, beautiful music, etc.), opera is first and foremost a spectacle, and people appreciate most what they deem to be most impressive (i.e. least attainable or familliar to them).
I have great high notes. But I’m a bass, and because of the color and timbre of my voice, my high notes don’t sound high in the same way that a tenor’s high notes do for him. They don’t have the the high-wire “will he make it” taughtness and pinpoint ring that characterizes a tenor’s (or soprano’s) high C, for instance.
Also, the highest notes of my singing voice are attainable by just about anyone - they may not sing them well, or in a way that they could do over and over or sustain, but they can produce those pitches. We’re talking about F or F# above middle C, for instance.
But that’s not true for tenors. A genuine high C, for instance, is not a pitch most men can produce at all without resorting to falsetto. Even tenors struggle with it. That counts for a lot when it comes to impressing people - and impressing people has a lot to do with what’s popular in opera.
Also, a tenor’s high notes are outside of the normal speaking range for the male voice. No one talks up there unless they are speaking in falsetto or impersonating a woman. Not true for lower voices like mine - there are plenty of men who talk quite high in their voices, even up to F or F# above middle C, which is about where operatic music tops out for the Bass voice.
Because of that, a bass’s high notes still sound somewhat familiar to listeners - more like a spoken voice. They can identify with the sound.
But once the tenor gets up into the A, B-flat, C (above middle C) range, it’s an entirely unfamiliar sound to most people - one they can’t identify with making.
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### Author:  [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/13 "2006-03-09T17:13:07Z")
The higher voices were easiest to hear and understand. They _had_ to take the lead.
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### Author:  [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/14 "2006-03-09T19:47:43Z")
**lissener** and **Figaro** nailed it.
The male romantic lead is usually the tenor because it is the voice of youth and passion. Remember that when opera was invented, people had to grow up a lot faster, and getting married at age 16 was pretty common. So a vocal range that is high, but not high enough to sound feminine (counter-tenor or castrato) or childish (treble) became the norm for composers setting the lines to be sung by a young man. Sometimes in the operatic canon you’ll come across male characters whose puberty seems to have been delayed a bit, and these are the so-called “trouser” roles usually played by mezzos or altos (Cherubino in _The Marriage of Figaro_, for example).
That’s the historic origins. As to the popularity of the tenor voice, it’s what **Figaro** said. The great tenor roles are risky, and to the opera aficionado, listening to Placido Domingo effortlessly nailing that high note in _Che gelida manina_ has the same visceral thrill that a sports fan might feel when watching a gymnist execute a perfect double-somersault landing off the high bar. If you don’t think it’s risky, then you are probably not aware that for a professional tenor, missing that note could be the end of his career. Altos, basses and baritones may be under pressure to put on a great performance, but they generally don’t face that kind of make-it-or-break-it moment.
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### Author:  [@Figaro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Figaro)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/15 "2006-03-09T21:47:20Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#):
>
> The higher voices were easiest to hear and understand. They _had_ to take the lead.
nitpick…it’s true that high voices are often easier to hear, but they are usually much harder to understand. The higher the pitch, and the farther above normal speaking range, the more distorted vowel sounds become. If you listen to the same set of songs sung by a soprano and a baritone, for instance, you will almost always understand the baritone more clearly. (unless he has poor diction…)
> [@Kizarvexius](#):
>
> […snip]listening to Placido Domingo **effortlessly** nailing that high note in Che gelida manina[snip…]
of course, that’s never happened…😉 [I’m a big Domingo fan, by the way…don’t get me wrong]
Great point about men maturing much earlier in life, too. I hadn’t thought about the fact that young “men” in the 18th and 19th centuries were what we now consider older boys.
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### Author:  [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/16 "2006-03-10T01:28:13Z")
> [@Figaro](#):
>
> of course, that’s never happened…😉 [I’m a big Domingo fan, by the way…don’t get me wrong]
You got me there. But he sure made it _sound_ effortless. Not bad for a renegade baritone.
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### Author:  [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2006, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/17 "2006-03-10T01:35:31Z")
> [@Figaro](#):
>
> Operatic bass, here…
>
> The short answer to this question (and the parallel question of why sopranos are far more popular than mezzo-sopranos and contraltos in the opera world) is pretty simple: **the visceral thrill of high notes.**
>
> Disregarding it’s many other aspects for the moment (drama, beautiful music, etc.), opera is first and foremost a spectacle, and people appreciate most what they deem to be most impressive (i.e. least attainable or familliar to them).
>
> I have great high notes. But I’m a bass, and because of the color and timbre of my voice, my high notes don’t sound high in the same way that a tenor’s high notes do for him. They don’t have the the high-wire “will he make it” taughtness and pinpoint ring that characterizes a tenor’s (or soprano’s) high C, for instance.
>
> Also, the highest notes of my singing voice are attainable by just about anyone - they may not sing them well, or in a way that they could do over and over or sustain, but they can produce those pitches. We’re talking about F or F# above middle C, for instance.
>
> But that’s not true for tenors. A genuine high C, for instance, is not a pitch most men can produce at all without resorting to falsetto. Even tenors struggle with it. That counts for a lot when it comes to impressing people - and impressing people has a lot to do with what’s popular in opera.
>
> Also, a tenor’s high notes are outside of the normal speaking range for the male voice. No one talks up there unless they are speaking in falsetto or impersonating a woman. Not true for lower voices like mine - there are plenty of men who talk quite high in their voices, even up to F or F# above middle C, which is about where operatic music tops out for the Bass voice.
>
> Because of that, a bass’s high notes still sound somewhat familiar to listeners - more like a spoken voice. They can identify with the sound.
>
> But once the tenor gets up into the A, B-flat, C (above middle C) range, it’s an entirely unfamiliar sound to most people - one they can’t identify with making.
I can b-flat with the best of them! 😛
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/18 "2006-03-10T03:51:06Z")
> [@Oy!](#):
>
> Pop, unfortunately, hasn’t seen a serious bass since, maybe (it’s a little iffy, he’s on the high side for a baritone), Jim Morrison (unless you want to count Bowser of Sha Na Na).
Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/19 "2006-03-10T03:58:36Z")
Roger Waters of Pink Floyd. Scott Weiland of Stone Temple Pilots. Warren Zevon.
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-tenors-not-baritones-or-basses-the-reigning-kings-of-the-male-opera-world/347654/20 "2006-03-10T13:19:02Z")
> [@Walloon](#):
>
> Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam.
He came to mind first. So did Billy Idol.
That guy from Crash Test Dummies is clearly a bass’ bass.
Barry White, anyone? 🙂
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