# Why are the Boston Celtics pronounced "seltic"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 21, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980 "2010-06-21T14:14:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/1 "2010-06-21T14:14:32Z")
Most folks familiar with Celtic festivals/music/food pronounce the word “Celtic” with a hard “K” sound up front: “keltic.” However, when referring to the professional basketball team from Boston, the word is invariably pronounced with an “S” sound on front, i.e. “seltic.” Wazzupwidat? ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/2 "2010-06-21T14:19:33Z")
Apparently, we can blame the priesthood for this abomination. In Vulgate Latin, the letter ‘c’ when followed by an ‘i’ or an ‘e’ was pronounced as a soft ‘c’ (or ‘s’). This (along with the prohibition of ending a sentence with a preposition, among other anachronistic silliness) carried over into Norman French and then into English. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/3 "2010-06-21T14:21:48Z")
The pronunciation changed. I don’t think there’s anything else to it. It was originally pronounced Keltic, got shifted to Seltic, and more recently (meaning after the team started playing) went back to Keltic. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/4 "2010-06-21T14:22:34Z")
Celtic football club in Glasgow is also pronounced seltic. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/5 "2010-06-21T14:37:14Z")
Spelling is incidental; it actually goes back to pre-writing pronunciation, meaning, and intent. The prefixual pronunciation _ **k** ell_ originally implied a sort of gift or dowry. This, of course, was not appropriate for the general purpose of starting a basketball club, which though premised on a sport, is really a business venture. Therefore, the decision was made to use a more relevant prefix pronunciation with its different applied meaning: _ **s** ell-tix_. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/6 "2010-06-21T14:38:43Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Spelling is incidental; it actually goes back to pre-writing pronunciation, meaning, and intent. The prefixual pronunciation _ **k** ell_ originally implied a sort of gift or dowry. This, of course, was not appropriate for the general purpose of starting a basketball club, which though premised on a sport, is really a business venture. Therefore, the decision was made to use a more relevant prefix pronunciation with its different applied meaning: _ **s** ell-tix_. GROAN. I like your answer better than mine. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/7 "2010-06-21T15:16:49Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Celtic football club in Glasgow is also pronounced seltic. Rod Stewart’s song “You’re in My Heart” is an extended series of metaphors describing the beloved as “ageless, timeless, lace and fineness, beauty and elegance,” among other things. Then in an extended play on infatuation and sports-fandom, he sings: “You’re an essay in glamour Please pardon the grammar But you’re every schoolboy’s dream You’re Celtic, United, but baby i’ve decided You’re the best team i’ve ever seen” Celtic (pronounced with the initial /s/) and United are of course the two competing Glaswegian teams. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/8 "2010-06-21T15:20:46Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Apparently, we can blame the priesthood for this abomination. > In Vulgate Latin, the letter ‘c’ when followed by an ‘i’ or an ‘e’ was pronounced as a soft ‘c’ (or ‘s’). This (along with the prohibition of ending a sentence with a preposition, among other anachronistic silliness) carried over into Norman French and then into English. It’s not a ridiculous prescriptive rule like the preposition one; it’s a simple, standard pronunciation pattern. It goes for the letter c before y, as well, though that doesn’t come up as often. This is why ‘accident’ is pronounced as if it has an x in the middle - the first c, which is not before e, i or y, is a hard c, and the second c, which is before i, is a soft c. So people saying seltic for those two sports clubs were saying it like an English word, not a, er, Celtic word, and that pronunciation stuck. Spanish and French have a similar spelling/pronunciation pattern for the letter c. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/9 "2010-06-21T15:37:05Z")
A few years ago “All Things Considered” did an April 1 story about the Boston Celtics signing a hot Irish prospect, who insisted on a clause that the organization must change its pronunciation from Seltic to Keltic. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/10 "2010-06-21T15:39:46Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Celtic (pronounced with the initial /s/) and United are of course the two competing Glaswegian teams. I thought that Celtic’s main rivals were the Rangers. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/11 "2010-06-21T15:41:24Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Celtic (pronounced with the initial /s/) and United are of course the two competing Glaswegian teams. The two (main) Glasgow teams are Celtic and Rangers. I _think_ Rod is singing about Manchester United. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/12 "2010-06-21T15:43:02Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Celtic (pronounced with the initial /s/) and United are of course the two competing Glaswegian teams. Really? I have never heard of **Rangers United** , or even of **Partick Thistle United** ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/13 "2010-06-21T15:50:45Z")
I wonder if he actually sang “Celtic United”, because he or the lyricist either thought it was the actual name of the team, or is just lazy and wanted it to rhyme with “decided”? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/14 "2010-06-21T16:00:58Z")
Probably Manchester United, then – give me a break, for even recognizing they were the names of two footie teams! ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/15 "2010-06-21T16:55:54Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I thought that Celtic’s main rivals were the Rangers. No. The team is Rangers. Not “the” Rangers. The Hun will do. Or Champions. Or just the most successful club in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/16 "2010-06-21T16:58:40Z")
> [@villa](#): > > No. The team is Rangers. Not “the” Rangers. The Hun will do. Or Champions. Or just the most successful club in the world. Learn more about that famous rivalry [here](http://www.rangersfansvcelticfans.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/17 "2010-06-21T17:32:01Z")
C + E Celtic languages: Gaulish pronunciation: /k/ (long since defunct) The modern languages are also all /k/, but learned borrowings rather than cognates. Romance languages: Classical Latin pronunciation: /k/ (“Keltic”) Church Latin pronunciation: /ʧ/ (“Cheltic”) Old French pronunciation: /ʧ/ (“Cheltic”) Modern French pronunciation: /s/ (“Seltic”) Germanic languages: Old English pronunciation: /ʧ/ (“Cheltic”) or /k/ (“Keltic”) [not an OE word, so I don’t know which way it would have been borrowed] Modern English: /s/ (“Seltic”), either as a borrowing from French or a spelling pronunciation, I don’t know. The traditional way to say it in Modern English, now used only in specific contexts like the sports team, because: Modern English2: /k/ (“Keltic”) is the way academics and neopagans say it. Both groups are aware that the letter C cannot be rendered /s/ in any of the Celtic languages.\* This pronunciation is now standard. Neither “Seltic” nor “Keltic” is wrong. “Keltic” is preferred. “Celtics,” however you say it, is stupid. Why not the Boston Celts? “Celtic” is an adjective and pluralizing it is idiotic. \*Except Gaulish inscriptions using that version of sigma in the Greek alphabet. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/18 "2010-06-21T17:45:45Z")
> [@villa](#): > > No. The team is Rangers. Not “the” Rangers. The Hun will do. Or Champions. Or just the most successful club in the world. There’s no “the” in the official name of the New York Yankees, either, but hey, look!, the “the” is necessary. My dialect requires a “the” in this context, so I’m sticking with that. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/19 "2010-06-21T18:13:02Z")
Anyone else picture the Celtics and the Rangers battling it out as rivals? Winning would really depend on home-court advantage, either the Celts trying to run around on ice or the Rangers hobbling along wood in their skates. Side note for those of you who love being pedantic with your articles–it’s _ **T** _he World Bank. Not just World Bank, the ‘The’ is always used and always capitalized. (If your style manual relies on an organization’s internal usage guide. If you’re free to rewrite/recapitalize at your discretion, have at it.) ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/20 "2010-06-21T18:16:54Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > There’s no “the” in the official name of the New York Yankees, either, but hey, look!, the “the” is necessary. My dialect requires a “the” in this context, so I’m sticking with that. If I go to New York and talk about the Yankees, people will agree that I am using the correct form. If I go to Glasgow and talk about the Rangers, people will think I am a sassenach who has spent too much time in the US. It’s just wrong, and your explanation is somewhat undercut by the fact you didn’t refer to “the Celtic.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980.md?page=2)