# Why are the Boston Celtics pronounced "seltic"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 21, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980 "2010-06-21T14:14:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/21 "2010-06-21T18:26:02Z")
I’m comfortable being considered “a sassenach who has spent too much time in the U.S.” I yam what I yam. I said “[the] Celtic [club]” the same way I say “[the] New York [club].” If it were in the plural form, I would have said “the Celtics.” “Rangers won the match”/“Yankees won the game” in my dialect implies any generic category of people that fits the definition of “ranger” or “Yankee.” (“Rangers won? You mean they didn’t use professional football players?” “Yankees won the game? So the Hispanics and Southerners on the team didn’t contribute?”) To refer to the proper name of a specific group of people in the plural, the “the” is required in my dialect. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/22 "2010-06-21T18:43:51Z")
> [@villa](#): > > If I go to New York and talk about the Yankees, people will agree that I am using the correct form. If I go to Glasgow and talk about the Rangers, people will think I am a sassenach who has spent too much time in the US. > > It’s just wrong, and your explanation is somewhat undercut by the fact you didn’t refer to “the Celtic.” Read the various Rangers song lyrics [here](http://www.113.d2g.com/orange-pages/grs_lyrics.htm#team) and you will see “the Rangers” is an acceptable varient. They are also sometimes known as “the 'Gers” ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/23 "2010-06-21T18:53:38Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > Read the various Rangers song lyrics [here](http://www.113.d2g.com/orange-pages/grs_lyrics.htm#team) and you will see “the Rangers” is an acceptable varient. They are also sometimes known as “the 'Gers” I know they are called the 'Gers. And use of ‘the Rangers’ is colloquial like ‘the Villa’ or ‘the Arsenal.’ “What are you doing tomorrow?” “I’m going to watch the Villa stuff the Arsenal.” But I would be fucking laughed out of Villa Park for suggesting their name was The Aston Villa, in the same way I would have been laughed at in the multiple times I have been to Ibrox for claiming the team’s name was the Rangers. It’s just not correct, and it is an Americanization. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/24 "2010-06-21T19:02:33Z")
> [@villa](#): > > If I go to Glasgow and talk about the Rangers, people will think I am a sassenach who has spent too much time in the US. I’m not so sure of that, tbh. In Scottish English it would be fine to say “I’m away to see the Rangers on Saturday”. The city rivals would use “ra Sellick” in the equivalent sentence. “Rangers won” is the usual form though, as is “Celtic lost”. Edit ^^^^^^^ That just appeared, I agree with you ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/25 "2010-06-21T19:27:20Z")
> [@villa](#): > > and it is an Americanization. Seeing as I’m an American, I have no problem using Americanizations when employing language. The rest of your post borders nonsense. > [@](#): > > And use of ‘the Rangers’ is colloquial like ‘the Villa’ or ‘the Arsenal.’ And since we Members and Guests forgather at the Straight Dope Message Board on the World Wide Web to engage each other in a colloquial context … What the hell are you on about again? > [@](#): > > But I would be fucking laughed out of Villa Park for suggesting their name was The Aston Villa It’s colloquial but it’s not correct, eh? :dubious: You feel free to refer to them as “the Villa” in a colloquial context, but it’s not correct to refer to them as “the Villa.” :dubious: > [@](#): > > , in the same way I would have been laughed at in the multiple times I have been to Ibrox for claiming the team’s name was the Rangers. It’s just not correct, and it is an Americanization. So when you go to Ibrox, how do you “claim the team’s name” is the Rangers? Is there a form for that? Does it need to be notarized? I didn’t file that form in the post that’s being disputed, so I’m sure I’m safe from being laughed at. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/26 "2010-06-21T19:41:48Z")
I give up on this. You’re wrong, and the way you used it would have had you labelled immediately as someone who didn’t know what they were talking about. Not everything needs to be Americanized, even if you are American, or even if you are talkign to other Americans. The country won’t fall apart if you simply acknowledge that British English/Scottish English doesn’t require a sports team to have “the” in front of its name. But go ahead. Call them the wrong name. They’re still the most successful team in history. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/27 "2010-06-21T20:36:52Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > If it were in the plural form, I would have said “the Celtics.” That’s just plain wrong, the equivalent of using “the sheeps”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/28 "2010-06-21T21:01:49Z")
:rolleyes: People do get irrational when talking about sports. 1. Do you see the topic of this thread? There’s actually a team called the Boston Celtics. Obviously, “the Celtics” is nothing like “the sheeps.” 2. If there were a team that of its own volition chose a name like “Sheeps,” just like there is a team that has chosen a name like “Rangers,” I would use a “the” in both cases. 3. Do you see the subjunctive mood in the statement of mine you quoted as well as No. 2 above? It was in response to **Villa** ’s observation that I didn’t refer to the Glasgow team as “the Celtic.” Well, I wouldn’t, but if the club did have a name in the plural, like the Boston Celtics, I would have used a “the,” and it would have been nothing like saying “the sheeps.” 4. It has already been shown that “the Rangers” is in use by actual Glaswegians, so, you know, get a life. (Although it’s “colloquial” but not “correct” which apparently means that Americans aren’t allowed to say it because it sounds like an Americanization or something.) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/29 "2010-06-21T21:07:11Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > There’s no “the” in the official name of the New York Yankees, either, but hey, look!, the “the” is necessary. My dialect requires a “the” in this context, so I’m sticking with that. It’s pronounced ‘duh’ Yankees, and they play in ‘duh’ Bronx. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/30 "2010-06-21T21:55:49Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > :rolleyes: > > People do get irrational when talking about sports. > > 1. Do you see the topic of this thread? There’s actually a team called the Boston Celtics. Obviously, “the Celtics” is nothing like “the sheeps.” In my quote I thought you were now talking about the team called Celtic at that point. From Glasgow. In response to **villa**. That’s what I was talking about, I don’t think we really disagree here. My mistake. Still, the rolleyes really helps your argument. Keep up the good work. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/31 "2010-06-21T22:05:51Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > In my quote I thought you were now talking about the team called Celtic at that point. From Glasgow. In response to **villa**. Just to be clear: I called the teams “Celtic” and “the Rangers.” **Villa** said this was inconsistent. I replied that it wasn’t inconsistent, because if their name were in the plural (which it conceivably could have been), I would have said, “the Celtics.” The _if_s, _were_s, and _would have_s are key here. > [@](#): > > That’s what I was talking about, I don’t think we really disagree here. My mistake. My suspicion is that there are Glaswegians who happily refer to “the Celtics,” but it doesn’t interest me enough to find out for sure. > [@](#): > > Still, the rolleyes really helps your argument. Keep up the good work. Sorry for that, but the tone of the discussion prior to your post was getting into rolleye territory. I’d be happy to take on a more congenial tone if we all agree that correct syntax in one variety of English doesn’t become “incorrect” or “just wrong” just because one has crossed some kind of abstract topical national boundary. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/32 "2010-06-21T22:19:14Z")
If we’re going to be criticizing the grammar of team names, how about the Maple Leafs? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/33 "2010-06-21T22:38:38Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > My suspicion is that there are Glaswegians who happily refer to “the Celtics,” but it doesn’t interest me enough to find out for sure. There aren’t. In terms of Celtic Football Club, that is just plain wrong, akin to the “sheeps” thing. Anyway, is it plausible that the Boston Celtics (founded 1946 according to wiki) took the pronunciation from Irish/ Scots Irish immigrants who were familiar with Celtic Football Club (played first game in 1888). ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/34 "2010-06-21T22:52:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If we’re going to be criticizing the grammar of team names, how about the Maple Leafs? Actually, that’s grammatically correct. Irregular plurals are used for the common meaning of the word, but not for names or nonliteral/stylistic uses of the word. Hence trees have leaves but the team is the Toronto Maple Leafs, people have lives but some paintings are still lifes. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/35 "2010-06-21T22:55:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If we’re going to be criticizing the grammar of team names, how about the Maple Leafs? Any Ontarian, or even somebody who’s lived nearby, knows the answer to this: The maple **leaves** drop to the ground in the fall. The Maple **Leafs** drop in the NHL standings throughout the winter. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/36 "2010-06-21T23:32:04Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Anyone else picture the Celtics and the Rangers battling it out as rivals? Winning would really depend on home-court advantage, either the Celts trying to run around on ice or the Rangers hobbling along wood in their skates. I like the idea of basketball on skates, though! Would be a truly wild sport! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/37 "2010-06-21T23:49:11Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Actually, that’s grammatically correct. Irregular plurals are used for the common meaning of the word, but not for names or nonliteral/stylistic uses of the word. Hence trees have leaves but the team is the Toronto Maple Leafs, people have lives but some paintings are still lifes. Is the use of singulars in a plural context grammatically correct? I know someone who would say ‘travel ten mile’ instead of 'miles, or ‘weighs 50 pound’. He was born and raised in the US, but I’ve occasionally heard this form in other contexts. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/38 "2010-06-22T01:43:33Z")
I always thought itwas a difference between the Goidelic and Brythonic pronunciation myself, but then, I’m a big ol’ geek. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/39 "2010-06-22T02:06:10Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > The two (main) Glasgow teams are Celtic and Rangers. I _think_ Rod is singing about Manchester United. The Scottish Premier League does include Dundee United, but I’d agree that it’s more likely to be a reference to Man U. Makes sense that he would pick two top class teams from different leagues, rather than rivals from the same league. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/40 "2010-06-22T02:16:25Z")
The Maple Leafs are named for a singular leaf. If there were several on the flag, they’d be Leaves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980.md?page=3)