# Why are the Boston Celtics pronounced "seltic"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 21, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980 "2010-06-21T14:14:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/41 "2010-06-22T02:24:05Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Modern English: /s/ (“Seltic”), either as a borrowing from French or a spelling pronunciation, I don’t know. The traditional way to say it in Modern English, now used only in specific contexts like the sports team, because: > Modern English2: /k/ (“Keltic”) is the way academics and neopagans say it. It’s by no means limited to academics and neopagans. In fact, I’ve never heard anyone except a sports fan say “Seltic,” unless they didn’t know what the word meant. And nobody says “Seltic” at a Scottish or Irish gathering (I go to a lot of them) without somebody correcting them instantly. In other words, it’s not “academics and neopagans say Keltic and everyone else says Seltic.” It’s “Sports fans say Seltic and everyone else says Keltic.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/42 "2010-06-22T02:39:16Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:41, topic:543980”] It’s by no means limited to academics and neopagans. In fact, I’ve never heard anyone except a sports fan say “Seltic,” unless they didn’t know what the word meant. And nobody says “Seltic” at a Scottish or Irish gathering (I go to a lot of them) without somebody correcting them instantly. In other words, it’s not “academics and neopagans say Keltic and everyone else says Seltic.” It’s “Sports fans say Seltic and everyone else says Keltic.” [/QUOTE] In the U.S., I think there has been a shift over time. When I was a kid in the 1970s, pretty much everyone said “seltic.” Now, among educated people, “seltic” is reserved for sports. I remember when I was in sixth grade or so, the U.K.-born coach of the Celtic Red Dragons youth soccer team taught all his team members to say keltic. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/43 "2010-06-22T11:43:41Z")
So shouldn’t we say; The United Mancunians rather then Manchester United? I’m sorry I’ll get my coat. ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/44 "2010-06-22T12:39:02Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > :rolleyes: > > People do get irrational when talking about sports. > > 1. It has already been shown that “the Rangers” is in use by actual Glaswegians, so, you know, get a life. (Although it’s “colloquial” but not “correct” which apparently means that Americans aren’t allowed to say it because it sounds like an Americanization or something.) Can an actual Glaswegian chime in here? Villa is right, Ascenray, and you’re wrong. No Glaswegian would ever say “Celtic’s main rivals were the Rangers.” In other contexts, perhaps, but not in the particular context you’ve used. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/45 "2010-06-22T12:50:42Z")
> [@jinty](#): > > Can an actual Glaswegian chime in here? Villa is right, Ascenray, and you’re wrong. No Glaswegian would ever say “Celtic’s main rivals were the Rangers.” In other contexts, perhaps, but not in the particular context you’ve used. My dad was a Glasweigan (Blantyre) and a Rangers supporter and he would definitely have looked at you oddly if you said “The” Rangers ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/46 "2010-06-22T13:03:02Z")
> [@jinty](#): > > Can an actual Glaswegian chime in here? Villa is right, Ascenray, and you’re wrong. No Glaswegian would ever say “Celtic’s main rivals were the Rangers.” In other contexts, perhaps, but not in the particular context you’ve used. I don’t think I have ever heard anyone say “THE Rangers”. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/47 "2010-06-22T13:14:42Z")
Neat but irrelevant fact- The Thames River in Connecticut is named after the one in England but is pronounced like it’s spelled. After it was named King George came to the throne but couldn’t pronounce the ‘TH’ sound. At the time King’s English just meant the standard is how the king says stuff and that pronunciation stuck in England but not here. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/48 "2010-06-22T14:07:01Z")
> [@jinty](#): > > Villa is right, Ascenray, and you’re wrong. No Glaswegian would ever say “Celtic’s main rivals were the Rangers.” In other contexts, perhaps, but not in the particular context you’ve used. It doesn’t matter. I’m not obligated to use English exactly as a Glaswegian would just because I’m talking about a Glaswegian subject. You misunderstand the word “wrong” in this context. It’s not “wrong” because it’s “right” in my variety of English. That’s all it takes. English is supremely flexible. In the 19th century, it was customary to add a “the” _s_ to any club name in any context. Thus, today, where we say “New York won,” it was a common variant to say “The New Yorks won.” It is _uncommon_ or _unusual_ to use that construction today, but it is not _wrong_. In my dialect, it sounds wrong to leave the “the” out, so I choose to say “the Rangers” whether I’m talking about the New York Rangers or the Texas Rangers or the Glasgow Rangers. I also say “the Skydome” even though the owners prefer not to use the “the.” You can’t legislate my usage. If it sounds right to me, it’s right, especially in an informal context like an internet message board. It might mark me as someone who is not of the same social group as a person who would avoid saying “the Rangers,” but that’s fine with me. In other contexts, I might choose to say it the way a Glaswegian would say it, but not because I’m told that my way is “wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/49 "2010-06-22T14:25:43Z")
And if I choose to say dildo when talking about the Pope, it doesn’t mean I am wrong. I am just using English in my own special way. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/50 "2010-06-22T14:31:32Z")
Do you speak a variety of English in which “dildo” is a common synonym for “the Pope”? If you were to use it on this board, would the community understand what you were talking about? Those are the kinds of tests that mark “correct” English usage. “Exactly the way I would say it” is not. In my variety of English, the “the” is customary in such constructions, and you understood perfectly what I was talking about. That makes it _a_ correct way of saying it, even if it isn’t the way you would say it. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/51 "2010-06-22T14:32:06Z")
Anyone else scratching “attend church with **Villa** ” off their to-do lists? ETA: And where were all you pedants when I posted this thread: [Article (a, an, the) usage; British and American English](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550060)? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/52 "2010-06-22T14:41:32Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Do you speak a variety of English in which “dildo” is a common synonym for “the Pope”? If you were to use it on this board, would the community understand what you were talking about? Those are the kinds of tests that mark “correct” English usage. “Exactly the way I would say it” is not. I take it you have never been to a Rangers game then. That would be a polite way his Holiness would be described at Ibrox. > [@acsenray](#): > > In my variety of English, the “the” is customary in such constructions, and you understood perfectly what I was talking about. That makes it _a_ correct way of saying it, even if it isn’t the way you would say it. Actually, the only reason I understood you was that you prefaced it with the guff about Celtic’s rival. I would have understood it just as much had you said “Celtic’s main rivals were the Dildos.” Take that reference away, and I would be lost. Ask the question “Did the Rangers win yesterday?” and I would look for the MLB scores (I wouldn’t bother with the NHL scores because no one needs to ask if the NY Rangers won as the answer is no). It wouldn’t even cross my mind you were talking about the 'Gers. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/53 "2010-06-22T14:45:37Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Anyone else scratching “attend church with **Villa** ” off their to-do lists? I also should be avoided at civil weddings and bar mitzvahs. ---
**Author:** ![JoseArcadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@JoseArcadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseArcadio)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/54 "2010-06-22T14:54:39Z")
I’m an honourory Glaswegian (been living here 7 years) and many of my friends and family are Rangers fans. None of them say The Rangers and it’s not something I ever heard in the Highlands either. However, some of them have been known to say “'mon the Gers” same as a Celtic fan might say “'mon the Hoops.” ETA: wow, I must’ve left this page sitting open for ages before getting round to a reply! Post was in response to **jinty**. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/55 "2010-06-22T15:17:56Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I take it you have never been to a Rangers game then. That would be a polite way his Holiness would be described at Ibrox. Then it’s not “wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/56 "2010-06-22T15:22:27Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Then it’s not “wrong.” It was a “joke.” ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/57 "2010-06-22T15:57:26Z")
My flatmate’s a bluenose with a Rangers season ticket (every Rangers win is a _historic victory_!). I’ve been to a few Rangers games myself at Ibrox. Nobody says “the Rangers”, only ever “Rangers”. They do say “the Hun” or “the 'Gers” though. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/58 "2010-06-22T22:03:23Z")
**ascenray** , I don’t know why you’re continuing to try to defend your honest mistake. Where Rangers are from, nobody says “the Rangers”. “Rangers” and “Celtic” are how those teams are referred to, plus a load of slang terms that may or may not have the definite article, but aren’t germane to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/59 "2010-06-22T23:02:01Z")
To add to the pile-on, chalk me up as someone brought up as a Protestant Scot in the west of Scotland to whom “the Rangers” would sound weird as a reference to the football team in almost any context. ---
**Author:** ![kim\_jung\_il](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kim\_jung\_il](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kim_jung_il)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/60 "2010-06-23T09:22:31Z")
> [@villa](#): > > No. The team is Rangers. Not “the” Rangers. **The Hun** will do. Or Champions. Or just the most successful club in the world. By your response it sounds like you may have affection for Rangers, but calling Rangers or their fans by that name is very offensive and also untrue. Celtic were nicknamed this up until the 1980s due to their leaning of fascism during WWII. In fact, Celtic Park was closed down during the war, due to their fans chanting Nazi slogans. “The Rangers” as the name of the great club is also acceptable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980.md?page=4)