# Why are the Boston Celtics pronounced "seltic"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 21, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980 "2010-06-21T14:14:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/61 "2010-06-23T14:56:11Z")
Well, the name has kind of been reclaimed by the Rangers fans I know, who will refer to themselves as Hun. And no research I have done has turned up any reference to the Hun referring to Celtic fans since the 1960s. But we can agree on the great club as a name. ---
**Author:** ![kim\_jung\_il](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kim\_jung\_il](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kim_jung_il)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/62 "2010-06-23T16:06:58Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Well, the name has kind of been reclaimed by the Rangers fans I know, who will refer to themselves as Hun. And no research I have done has turned up any reference to the Hun referring to Celtic fans since the 1960s. > > But we can agree on the great club as a name. Rangers fans calling themselves Huns? I’d imagine they’d have to be either naive or very stupid. I was a season ticket holder for 10 years and never heard anyone calling themselves hun. It is a slur, pure and simple and if a supporter named themselves that word, they obviously have no idea of its connotations. I am currently looking for a cite for proof for you. There is a song that was sung by Rangers fans. “NO NUNS NO PRIESTS NO HOLY WATER.. NO HOME RULE FOR IRELAND! IF I HAD A TOMMY GUN I’D SHOOT EVERY\*\* FENIAN HUN\*\* JUST FOR WALKING ON THE QUEENS HIGHWAYS!” ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/63 "2010-06-23T16:35:30Z")
Not denying it was used for Celtic - I just never came across it, and when I looked it up, I couldn’t see it past the 60’s. I will certainly bow to your greater experience on this one. In know Hun was a slur. But there is a history of slurs being adopted by the group they were directed against and worn as badges of honour. I know a fair number of Rangers fans who refer to themselves as Huns. As for myself, I’m a secondary supporter (Villa first, and English anyway so the Scottish league was always a secondary thing for me). So I’ll apologize for using Hun as a descriptor, ---
**Author:** ![kim\_jung\_il](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kim\_jung\_il](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kim_jung_il)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/64 "2010-06-23T17:00:16Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Not denying it was used for Celtic - I just never came across it, and when I looked it up, I couldn’t see it past the 60’s. I will certainly bow to your greater experience on this one. > > In know Hun was a slur. But there is a history of slurs being adopted by the group they were directed against and worn as badges of honour. I know a fair number of Rangers fans who refer to themselves as Huns. As for myself, I’m a secondary supporter (Villa first, and English anyway so the Scottish league was always a secondary thing for me). So I’ll apologize for using Hun as a descriptor, Here’s a little more info (source is an acquaintance) The term comes from a reference to the droves of Irish heading home at the outset of WW2 to avoid conscription. Articles in the British mainstream newspapers referred to them as “stay at home huns”. The term was also adopted as a reference to Celtic FC and their fans sympathies during the War against the Nazis. Right up until at least the late 70’s, Rangers fans were still singing “Go home ya huns” to the Celtic support. Other clubs fans adopted it as an anthem against anyone they were beating ie; “Go home ya huns” became a variation of “cheerio cheerio cheerio”. It eventually evolved into a term of abuse used by the Celtic support aimed specifically at Rangers fans or Protestants. ---
**Author:** ![kim\_jung\_il](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kim\_jung\_il](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kim_jung_il)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/65 "2010-06-24T10:00:23Z")
I haven;t found a cite for Celtic fans in particular, but I have found several sources for their ilk and people from, what they would call “their homeland” [http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/....&pqatl=google](http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/....&pqatl=google) [http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...679D946696D6CF](http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...679D946696D6CF) [http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...B0668383609EDE](http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...B0668383609EDE) ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/66 "2010-06-24T10:58:06Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Neat but irrelevant fact- > > The Thames River in Connecticut is named after the one in England but is pronounced like it’s spelled. After it was named King George came to the throne but couldn’t pronounce the ‘TH’ sound. At the time King’s English just meant the standard is how the king says stuff and that pronunciation stuck in England but not here. More like neat but bullshit. And all too obviously just a variant of the much-debunked myth about the origin of the Spanish lisp. None of the older spellings of the name of the English river included an ‘h’, suggesting that it has never been pronounced with a ‘th’ sound. The addition of the ‘h’ was just a relatively recent, pseudo-Classical affectation. And count me in as another Scot to whom ‘the Rangers’ sounds very odd. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/67 "2010-06-24T15:01:55Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:41, topic:543980”] It’s by no means limited to academics and neopagans. In fact, I’ve never heard anyone except a sports fan say “Seltic,” unless they didn’t know what the word meant. And nobody says “Seltic” at a Scottish or Irish gathering (I go to a lot of them) without somebody correcting them instantly. In other words, it’s not “academics and neopagans say Keltic and everyone else says Seltic.” It’s “Sports fans say Seltic and everyone else says Keltic.” [/QUOTE] No Irish person would talk about **S** eltic people or **S** eltic traditions. No Irish person would say **K** eltic football club. Nobody, Irish, Scot or English that I’ve known or heard ever refers to Rangers with a “The” in front. ETA: There is no question whatsoever about “Hun”. It is an insult and i’ve never heard a Rangers fan take ownership of the term. ---
**Author:** ![toodlepip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@toodlepip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toodlepip)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/68 "2010-06-24T20:19:17Z")
One elderly man I know - Scottish highlander and native Gaelic speaker - is convinced that “seltic” is the proper Scottish pronunciation, “keltic” being Irish. I’ve never heard anyone agree with him, he’s the only person I know who uses “seltic” in contexts other than the football team. ---
**Author:** ![kim\_jung\_il](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kim\_jung\_il](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kim_jung_il)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/69 "2010-06-25T05:16:06Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > No Irish person would talk about **S** eltic people or **S** eltic traditions. > > No Irish person would say **K** eltic football club. > > Nobody, Irish, Scot or English that I’ve known or heard ever refers to Rangers with a “The” in front. > ETA: There is no question whatsoever about “Hun”. It is an insult and i’ve never heard a Rangers fan take ownership of the term. I wouldn’t call Rangers “The Rangers” but the club is referred to “The” Rangers in many of its songs. “The” is more proper than “Glasgow” Rangers, as Glasgow isn’t part of the team’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2010, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/70 "2010-06-25T08:18:49Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Spanish and French have a similar spelling/pronunciation pattern for the letter c. Indeed. In French, “Celte”, “celtique”, are always pronounced with a soft ‘s’ sound. I thought that this “kelt” thing in English was, as someone said, a fad of “scholars and neopagans” (and Dopers). I’m sure it’s closer to the pronunciation in Celtic languages, but it sounds really strange to my ears. So strange, in fact, that I’ll probably continue pronouncing “Celt” with a ‘s’ sound in English, even though it’s not the preferred pronunciation today. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/71 "2010-06-28T06:07:56Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > In the U.S., I think there has been a shift over time. When I was a kid in the 1970s, pretty much everyone said “seltic.” Now, among educated people, “seltic” is reserved for sports. Indeed. ["From the Medieval Scotland website,](http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/may/30/theknowledge.sport)…" > [@Medieval Scotland Website](#): > > "The reason the Boston Celtics and Glasgow Celtic and all those other sports teams founded around 1900 (give or take a couple decades) pronounce their names Seltic is not because they were founded by ignorant folk who didn’t know any better, but because they spoke English and did know the proper pronunciation of the English word ‘Celtic’. > > "So what happened? Well, any number of things might explain why the in-crowd pronunciation shifted to Keltic (such as the German influence on Celtic studies, which was strong in the 19th- and early 20th-centuries) but the upshot is that it is now fashionable - almost obligatory - in certain circles to pronounce the word with a K sound rather than the original S sound. …[Nonetheless], the standard rules of English, the rules of language, long use and practice, all argue in favour of Seltic, not Keltic. Props: griffen1977, in this thread devoted to this subject: [The Word "Celtic" - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=363296) ---
**Author:** ![USNSPARKS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9fc348/32.png) [@USNSPARKS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USNSPARKS)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/72 "2016-01-09T01:50:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s pronounced ‘duh’ Yankees, and they play in ‘duh’ Bronx. I always thought it was ‘duh Bron-ex’. GGGG ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/73 "2016-01-09T16:08:57Z")
It’s “duh Zombies”. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980/74 "2016-01-09T19:01:36Z")
I understand that insiders in government, and those speaking insider-ish, refer to the CIA as CIA (as in “CIA says…”, State, DOD, etc. Of course, Yankees and New York Timeses keep the. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-boston-celtics-pronounced-seltic/543980.md?page=3)