# Why are the Cheneys so miffed about Kerry's "lesbian" remarks in D#3? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2004, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360 "2004-10-15T12:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/41 "2004-10-16T03:40:48Z")
As far as I can tell, Big Time Dick and the missus are upset that John Kerry thinks that their lesbian daughter should have the same rights as everyone else. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/42 "2004-10-16T04:16:47Z")
> [@Mynn](#): > > " The link in your quote is broken ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/43 "2004-10-16T05:24:58Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > First Edwards, then Kerry takes this same cheap-shot? Calling a lesbian a lesbian is not a cheap shot. Did we learn _nothing_ from that Very Special Episode of “Designing Women”? ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/44 "2004-10-16T05:55:29Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > As far as I can tell, Big Time Dick and the missus are upset that John Kerry thinks that their lesbian daughter should have the same rights as everyone else. 😕 Yeah, even if they’re Republican! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/45 "2004-10-16T06:02:43Z")
Didn’t Vice President Cheney publically talk about his daughter being gay a few weeks back? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/46 "2004-10-16T06:18:33Z")
At a town hall meeting in Iowa in August, Dick Cheney responded to a question about same sex marriage by saying, “Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it’s an issue our family is very familiar with.” He went on to say that he thought it was something that should be left to the states to decide, implictly disagreeing with the “Family Marriage Amendment” Bush supports. Also, a quote from Mary Grant, a friend of Dick and Lynne Cheney since high school, about Mary Cheney being openly gay: > [@](#): > > In my family, my mother would never have spoken to me again. In their family, Mary is integral, accepted fully into the family, and they love her. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/47 "2004-10-16T08:37:06Z")
I kinda think if it is now our business whether or not the president gets a blowjob then it is also our business exactly how our current administration feels about the VP’s lesbian daughter. I’m sick of one party deciding what’s cool to bring up and talk about and what’s not. You want to be the president or VP of the United States, I wanna know about the shit stains in your underwear. Don’t claim it’s “not cool” to talk about. If the VP is afraid that talking about, or taking clear positions about his own family is “uncool” because it may effect how people vote for him, then he has no business being VP. It’s almost like being blackmailable, and anyone who can be blackmailed shouldn’t be elected to public office, much less granted a high level security clearance. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/48 "2004-10-16T08:43:55Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Calling a lesbian a lesbian is not a cheap shot. Did we learn _nothing_ from that Very Special Episode of “Designing Women”? I swear… that episode of Designing Women as Eugenia Weeks(no, I didn’t have to look it up) and her role in Once Bitten are all Karen Kopins will be remembered for. Amazing that saying someone is lesbian or gay when they ARE could be considered a slur for political gain. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/49 "2004-10-16T09:31:10Z")
That this subject has even reached the GD board proves that this feigned slight was worth the Republicans effort to deflect the fact that Bush lost all three debates. The Republicans have nothing else to grab onto at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/50 "2004-10-16T15:15:15Z")
Lynne Cheney may have been sincerely outraged. The reason is that she is ashamed of her daugter, and considers a mention of lesbianism akin to saying that a family member is an alcoholic. Cheney clearly was not, and only spoke out after the focus groups showed that Kerry might be vulnerable to such an attack. As it developed, it became a way to divert attention from Bush getting the piss beat out of him in the debates. In other words, the only sincere outrage was bigoted outrage. On the other hand, what Kerry did was: say this, as Timothy Noah put it: > [@](#): > > But the political point was an entirely legitimate one, aimed, I believe, not at fundamentalists but at swing voters with libertarian leanings. Listen, Kerry was saying. This guy knows gay people, just like you and I do. So he must know that homosexuality isn’t a “lifestyle choice.” He must know that, and yet he pretends not to know it to score points with the religious right. How cynical can you get? And then he lends his support to a cockamamie Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage that even his right-wing-nut of a vice president can’t stomach because his own daughter is gay. But even Cheney won’t really speak out against this administration’s exploitation of the gay-marriage issue to score cheap political points. Some father he is. In other words, Kerry was pointing out that Bush and Cheney, for all their talk about having values and standing up for this and that, are just cynical politicians at heart, even when it comes to members of their own families. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/51 "2004-10-16T15:43:41Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Lynne Cheney may have been sincerely outraged. The reason is that she is ashamed of her daugter, and considers a mention of lesbianism akin to saying that a family member is an alcoholic. How do you explain the positive lesbian portrayals in Lynne Cheney’s novel, then? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/52 "2004-10-16T15:56:15Z")
The same way I explain George Bush bragging about how he could drink and drive and his daddy would fix everything so it didn’t matter: she woke up and saw the “light” later on when she became a big mover and shaker in the right-wing social scene. > [@](#): > > That should read a simple honest woman who just happens to be the daughter of a vice-president. And his campaign manager. And works in doing gay outreach on behalf of the Republican party. > [@](#): > > It may come as a surprise to you but most people do not define themselves by their sexual orientation. She chooses to keep a low profile. Kerry did not respect that choice. Neither did Cheney, then. She must be really steamed! > [@](#): > > She has deliberately avoided taking a political position on gay issues. Except, of course, for doing public outreach to the gay community and being used by her father as a way to soften his image. > [@](#): > > Kerry had no right to invoke her name as a representative of the gay community. He didn’t: he invoked her name as a gay person that Bush and Cheney know personally, to expose that Bush’s answer was complete bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/53 "2004-10-17T02:56:05Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > How do you explain the positive lesbian portrayals in Lynne Cheney’s novel, then? A lot can happen between 1981 and now. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/54 "2004-10-17T03:51:53Z")
This whole thing angry thing on the part of the Cheneys is so obviously a political ploy. Cheney certainly [doesn’t hesitate](http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/08/082404cheneyGay.htm) to bring Mary up when it is to his advantage to look like a compassionate conservative: ‘Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it’s an issue our family is very familiar with.’ Cheney said." Here, by the way, are Alan Keyes full remarks for which Lynne Cheney did not see fit to label him a bad man: > [@](#): > > In an interview with [365Gay.com](http://365Gay.com) editorialist and the host of his own Sirius OutQ radio, Michaelangelo Signorile, Alan Keyes said that homosexuality is “selfish hedonism.” Signorile then asked Keyes, the GOP candidate for the US Senate in Illinois, whether he considered Mary Cheney is a “selfish hedonist.” > > “Of course she is,” Keyes replied. “That goes by definition. Of course she is.” But I can see how [the remark from Kerry](http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004d.html) would be far more offensive: > [@](#): > > We’re all God’s children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney’s daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she’s being who she was, she’s being who she was born as. > > I think if you talk to anybody, it’s not choice. I’ve met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it. Yeah, it makes perfect sense. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/55 "2004-10-17T03:55:03Z")
In other words, you can my daughter a selfish hedonist and I’ll turn the other cheek, but you say my daughter is one of God’s children…thems fighting words! ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/56 "2004-10-17T04:02:17Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > In other words, you can my daughter a selfish hedonist and I’ll turn the other cheek “I’m surprised, frankly, that you would even repeat the quote, and I’m not going to dignify it with a comment,” is turning the other cheek? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/57 "2004-10-17T04:14:21Z")
As I noted before "“I’m surprised, frankly, that you would even repeat the quote, and I’m not going to dignify it with a comment,” is precisely the sort of careful, political answer you can expect from the Cheneys. Instead of actually coming out and stating contradiction of Keyes’ views, they say something that sounds like displeasure but that avoids any particular statements or response to his charges. This isn’t defending Mary so much as craftily avoiding a sticky situation. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/58 "2004-10-17T04:22:22Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > “I’m surprised, frankly, that you would even repeat the quote, and I’m not going to dignify it with a comment,” is turning the other cheek? versus > [@Lynne Cheney](#): > > The only thing I could conclude is that this is not a good man. This is not a good man. And, of course, I’m speaking as a mom. And a pretty indignant one. This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick. This woman knows how to demonstrate outrage. The top one was for calling her daughter a selfish hedonist. The bottom one was for calling her daughter a child of God. Just concede this point, **Walloon**. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360/59 "2004-10-17T04:27:56Z")
You got to like the use of “tawdry” though. There is a word that just doesn’t get used enough in political discourse nowadays. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-cheneys-so-miffed-about-kerrys-lesbian-remarks-in-d-3/269360.md?page=2)