# Why are the democrats "weak willed" or "cowards" for not punishing Lieberman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532 "2008-11-19T21:43:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/21 "2008-11-19T23:55:43Z")
Political capital for Obama is not Lieberman’s one vote, which would likely fall where it falls no matter what, but the perception of “post-partisanship.” As it is he’s getting flak for not yet naming any Republicans to his team and so many of the Clinton era. Sending the message that party loyalty is what is key would not serve him too well. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/22 "2008-11-19T23:55:54Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Party loyalty means that the party leadership can get their agenda through. If you want Obama and the Democrats to actually do the things they promised, you’d better hope they can get the party rank and file to go along. I only want their agenda to pass if people can agree to it and stand behind it, not if they are paying off favors and voting out of loyalty. And no, my name does not rhyme with Shmollyanna. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/23 "2008-11-19T23:55:57Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > heehee. Opened and closed a response to a thread in GD with Star Trek references, yet remained on reasonably on topic . 😃 And you wonder why all the townsfolk worship you. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/24 "2008-11-20T08:04:44Z")
People generally think if you don’t do the thing they think you should do then you are somehow weak willed or cowardly. I generally refer to these people as ‘idiots’. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/25 "2008-11-20T08:28:56Z")
Because they only held off so I’d have enough time to come up with a suitable headline: “Lily-livered legislator lets lying Lieberman lead lame-duck lawmakers.” Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got to call my old pal Harry and my buddy at the New York Times. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/26 "2008-11-20T17:19:32Z")
I’m wondering if inside polling is showing that the Dems have more of a chance at 60 in the Senate than people thought. If so, it’s certainly shrewd to extend that olive branch early, in hopes that Lieberman takes it and sucks up to the Dems in order to be re-elected. I doubt he will be anyway (I think Connecticut voters are pissed off that he lied about supporting the Democratic Presidential nominee), but kowtowing to the Democrats is Lieberman’s only hope now. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/27 "2008-11-20T17:28:07Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Yeah, maybe that works in the Klingon Empire. It ain’t an ideal environment though. I prefer people that take a stand based on some motivation other than mere party loyalty. If the party is wrong about something…or for that matter, if a member sincerely believes the party is wrong about something, that person should be allowed to speak his mind in honest debate. The needs of the country outweigh the needs of the party. I’m fine with the person speaking his mind in honest debate, as long as he votes the right way when it’s on the line. Look, I’m not saying that everything needs to be a strict party line vote, but there’s point in having a congressional leadership if the rank and file members are just going to ignore it and do whatever they want. And if some senator or congressman wants to be a maverick and “the conscience of the Congress” or whatever, fine, more power to him, but he shouldn’t then expect favors, like leadership positions and committee chairmanships, from the party he’s willing to ignore. And there’s little that says “I’m disloyal to the party” more then speaking at the other party’s nominating convention and telling everyone they should vote for the other guy for President. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/28 "2008-11-20T17:37:02Z")
I liked this opinion piece on huffpost > [@](#): > > I’ve been a supporter of the president-elect for the better part of a year now, and while I’ve always recognized a deep intellectualism and multilayered thoughtfulness in the man, it never fully occurred to me how he would use these strengths in a position of leadership. Until this week. > > In sharp contrast to your behavior, President-elect Obama hasn’t shown any predilection for pettiness or disloyalty, nor has he undermined his allies for the sake of political expedience. He’s proved himself to be a man of great character. Of values. I don’t need to remind anyone how he stood by Jeremiah Wright, for example, and at his own political peril when most would’ve tossed him overboard like political chum. > > You, on the other hand, have shown an unapologetic contempt for the party that once nominated you for the vice presidency – the party that welcomed you back to the fold even though you slipped through the system and defeated the fairly elected Democratic nominee, Ned Lamont, in 2006. You’ve betrayed your fellow liberals to settle a political score, Senator – in order to exact some kind of ignoble payback against your former party, against your caucus and against the netroots for merely calling you out on your literal and figurative smooching of the president. > > … snip … > In the final analysis, the hard reality is that by not choosing retribution, he made you look… > > …small. > **[An Open Letter To Joe Lieberman](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/an-open-letter-to-joe-lie_b_145026)** > > I submit to you, Sen. Lieberman, that you were punished yesterday more than you realize. Stick with me on this. I'll explain: it never fully occurred to me how Obama would use his strengths in a position of leadership. Until this week. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/29 "2008-11-20T17:57:18Z")
There, but for the grace of Obama, goes Lieberman. I think think Lieberman knows that he owes his position to Obama — that perhaps he doesn’t deserve that position, but owe it he does. He also must know that if he strays too far, it can be taken away from him. He’ll be on his best behavior. More importantly, I feel this was the cheaper solution political-capital-wise. You can see this frugality in how Obama carefully tests his nominees for political baggage. Obama intends to play this game on _offense_. If he has to fight Lieberman for 2 years, that’s political capital he has to spend on defense. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/30 "2008-11-20T18:49:11Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I’m fine with the person speaking his mind in honest debate, as long as he votes the right way when it’s on the line. Look, I’m not saying that everything needs to be a strict party line vote, but there’s point in having a congressional leadership if the rank and file members are just going to ignore it and do whatever they want. The congressional leadership can influence/control what gets to a vote and what doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/31 "2008-11-20T19:07:05Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > The congressional leadership can influence/control what gets to a vote and what doesn’t. Now if only they actually _would_… ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/32 "2008-11-20T22:58:31Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I’m fine with the person speaking his mind in honest debate, as long as he votes the right way when it’s on the line. Look, I’m not saying that everything needs to be a strict party line vote, but there’s [no] point in having a congressional leadership if the rank and file members are just going to ignore it and do whatever they want. (Added probably missing “no”.) I personally think Congress would work better if the legislators paid less heed to their party leaders and more to their constituents. I’d rather see Congressional caucuses for each issue than parties that try to link unrelated issues. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/33 "2008-11-20T23:29:28Z")
Yeah, because it’ll serve the American people better when our legislators owe votes to specific issues no matter what the individual bills say. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532/34 "2008-11-21T19:42:28Z")
I think they can revote when they feel like it. He is beholding to Obama for not coming out against hi. He is spared the humiliation and being pushed back to the status of a one term senator. Perhaps he will behave better now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-democrats-weak-willed-or-cowards-for-not-punishing-lieberman/473532.md?page=1)