# Why are the House Pubs so against impeachment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588 "2014-07-07T23:40:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/81 "2014-07-09T16:06:08Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > I seem to recall Obama getting a lot of criticism from the left earlier in his administration for “leading with compromise” in his proposals to congress only to get zero cooperation. Was that an accurate portrayal? An accurate portrayal of what has happened in the WH and Congress, yes; I have no cite for LW criticism of him on that score, but I’m sure I’ve seen some here and there. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/82 "2014-07-09T16:07:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The UK is a Parliamentary system. If you’re not the majority, you’re the minority. That was **my** point. Works better than our system. I’d endure unrestrained Republican rule, with a House-selected prime minister instead of an independently-elected president (and no Senate at all), in preference to gridlock; it would make it absolutely clear where all the blame for the results falls, and the Pubs always can be and in those circumstances certainly would be turned out next election. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/83 "2014-07-09T16:47:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The Iran thing is my opinion, whatever the official position is. As far as LBJ, most liberals I know have very mixed feelings. I’m sure there are some that love him, and some that hate him as well. > > So no, not wrong. Yet, anyway – hopefully I’m not proven wrong on the first count. That’s fine. But I do believe there are some things that no President can ignore, and a terrorist state gaining a nuclear capability is one of them. Obama cares about his legacy. He will not let Iran get nukes on his watch. He’s doing everything he can short of war to prevent it(Stuxnet was all kinds of awesome), but if he has nothing left on the table but bombing, he’ll do it in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/84 "2014-07-09T16:50:33Z")
Our government is designed so that nothing can move forward without broad approval, across parties, and across regions. I don’t like the concept or parliamentary supremacy at all. It is not a system conducive to preserving our liberties. The worst that can be said about limited government is that it doesn’t do enough for us. The worst that can be said about unlimited government is that we’re not free anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/85 "2014-07-09T16:53:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Our government is designed so that nothing can move forward without broad approval, across parties, and across regions. That’s probably true. An unfortunate side effect is that if a minority party wants to use the machinery of government to break the government, it probably has enough power to do so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/86 "2014-07-09T16:59:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He will not let Iran get nukes on his watch. He’s doing everything he can short of war to prevent it(Stuxnet was all kinds of awesome), but if he has nothing left on the table but bombing, he’ll do it in a heartbeat. I don’t think he will, because I think he recognizes that bombing would not prevent Iran from getting nukes. An invasion might, but that’s not happening (thankfully). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/87 "2014-07-09T17:00:38Z")
I think that fear is overstated. I agree that Republicans have been more unreasonable than ever, and it’s pissing me off almost as much as it’s pissing you off. But aside from the default scares, everything is working. Spending bills get passed, truly necessary legislation gets passed. All that’s being held up is stuff that one or the other party would like to have but isn’t actually all that vital. The economy is improving, crime is still going down, Apple’s going to give us a new Iphone and Disney’s making Star Wars films. Looks like there’s nothing wrong with limited government after all. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/88 "2014-07-09T17:02:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think he will, because I think he recognizes that bombing would not prevent Iran from getting nukes. An invasion might, but that’s not happening (thankfully). Nothing but regime change can stop Iran from getting nukes, but bombing, like sanctions and Stuxnet, can set them back. As long as it doesn’t happen on his watch. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/89 "2014-07-09T17:47:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nothing but regime change can stop Iran from getting nukes, but bombing, like sanctions and Stuxnet, can set them back. There is no way for the U.S. or Israel to bomb Iran that would not spin out of control into a general regional war. Professionals have wargamed that scenario several times and it always ends that way. And at this point, with the MENA already teetering on the brink of a general regional war, it does not bear thinking of at all. Bombing would not even “set them back” unless nukes were used; the Iranians have learned the lessons of the Osirak reactor (Saddam’s, which the Israelis bombed), and have built their nuclear facilities in bunkers hardened against conventional bombardment. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/90 "2014-07-09T17:51:02Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > She just seems generally opposed to anything or anyone going full term. Except for pregnant women, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/91 "2014-07-09T17:51:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Our government is designed so that nothing can move forward without broad approval, across parties, and across regions. I don’t like the concept or parliamentary supremacy at all. It is not a system conducive to preserving our liberties. It might appear that way in theory if you read and believe the arguments in _The Federalist._ In real life, however, the civil-liberties records of countries with parliamentary systems are on the whole and on average at least as good as those with separation-of-powers systems, if not better. That, I think, is less a matter of political system than political culture – if the culture does not respect liberty, no government that does will result, no matter how it is designed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/92 "2014-07-09T17:54:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The worst that can be said about limited government is that it doesn’t do enough for us. The worst that can be said about unlimited government is that we’re not free anymore. Another canard. Again, look around the world, at all the industrialized democracies where things in general – civil liberties included – go as well as in the U.S. or better. One thing you won’t find in **any** of them is limited government. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/93 "2014-07-09T17:54:39Z")
> [@EndlessEntropy](#): > > Every time Sarah Palin is brought up in the news I stop and wonder how the hell she was chosen as running mate and almost became vice president Every time she opens her mouth, I think, “Thank goodness John McCain lost in 2008.” She makes Dan Quayle look like a genius. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/94 "2014-07-09T18:07:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Another canard. Again, look around the world, at all the industrialized democracies where things in general – civil liberties included – go as well as in the U.S. or better. One thing you won’t find in **any** of them is limited government. In France, you can go to jail for booing the national anthem or “insulting the President.” > **[BBC NEWS | Europe | French MPs pass tough anti-crime law](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2759823.stm)** > > Anyone living off beggars or with a penchant for booing the Marseillaise faces heavy fines and a spell in prison under a new French law. In Britain, you need permission from the government to run an ad on any issue of controversy. They’ve gone way beyond election regulations. Not only that, but the media isn’t even allowed to cover the election on the day of the voting: > **[Europe upholds UK ban on political advertising](https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/europe-upholds-uk-ban-political-advertising/1179476)** > > The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has upheld the UK's ban of political advertising in broadcast media, after an eight-year appeal from the campaign group Animal Defenders International (ADI). > **[Campaign advertising](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_advertising#European_Union)** > > In politics, campaign advertising is propaganda through the media to influence a political debate and, ultimately, voting. Political consultants and political campaign staff design these ads. Many countries restrict the use of broadcast media to broadcast political messages. In the European Union, many countries do not permit paid-for TV or radio advertising for fear that wealthy groups will gain control of airtime, making fair play impossible and distorting the political debate. > In both the Uni... So right there, you see what happens when you don’t have a strong first amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/95 "2014-07-09T19:33:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In France, you can go to jail for booing the national anthem or “insulting the President.” In the U.S. Ed Meese could make a filmmaker put a “propaganda” declaration on his documentary. The French are not imprisoned and do not lack civil rights. To say they have “no freedoms” because there are some things they can’t do is…absurd. There are some laws we have that they don’t; does that make us a slave nation? On average, by-and-large, with minor exceptions (okay?) the other westernized democracies are just as free as we are. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/96 "2014-07-09T22:41:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think that fear is overstated. I agree that Republicans have been more unreasonable than ever, and it’s pissing me off almost as much as it’s pissing you off. But aside from the default scares, everything is working. Spending bills get passed, truly necessary legislation gets passed. All that’s being held up is stuff that one or the other party would like to have but isn’t actually all that vital. The economy is improving, crime is still going down, Apple’s going to give us a new Iphone and Disney’s making Star Wars films. Looks like there’s nothing wrong with limited government after all. And the middle class keeps shrinking as inequality worsens, the ecosystem on which we depend keeps getting more and more toxic, women (and men!) are losing access to reproductive health care, labor rights are being eroded to Gilded Era levels, the US government continues to push for neoliberal trade agreements (TPP, TTIP) to drag down the world’s environmental and labor protections, the US government continues to support the death squad regime in Honduras, vile monarchies in the Arab world, the apartheid Zionist regime in Occupied Palestine, and so on and so forth. A strong state could stand against this, and that would be wonderful, but I don’t trust the state. How about devolving power to workers’ councils, and away from capitalism and the state? > [@adaher](#): > > Nothing but regime change can stop Iran from getting nukes, but bombing, like sanctions and Stuxnet, can set them back. As long as it doesn’t happen on his watch. Iran’s government isn’t necessarily building nuclear weapons, but if they are, why is that such a big deal? I would rather they didn’t, but don’t you see the hypocrisy here? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/97 "2014-07-10T02:50:21Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > In the U.S. Ed Meese could make a filmmaker put a “propaganda” declaration on his documentary. > > The French are not imprisoned and do not lack civil rights. To say they have “no freedoms” because there are some things they can’t do is…absurd. There are some laws we have that they don’t; does that make us a slave nation? > > On average, by-and-large, with minor exceptions (okay?) the other westernized democracies are just as free as we are. I don’t think that’s true at all, but I guess it depends on what freedoms you hold dearest. For me, the 1st amendment is the most important, and Britain and France clearly lag the US in that regard. Liberals here go apeshit over the idea of a flag burning amendment(and the fact that we need to amend the Constitution to ban it speaks volumes). France just casually passed a law against booing the national anthem in an anti-crime bill. It’s just too easy to infringe basic rights elsewhere without court review. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/98 "2014-07-10T13:40:21Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > In the U.S. Ed Meese could make a filmmaker put a “propaganda” declaration on his documentary. What documentaries did Meese force such a label? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/99 "2014-07-10T13:44:00Z")
It was on some Canadian films. The court ruled that only US citizens have the right to engage in political activity anonymously. Foreigners can be required to be identified. Or something, I’m sure I’m butchering the explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588/100 "2014-07-10T18:22:25Z")
That’s essentially correct: some Canadians had made a documentary about Acid Rain. Ed Meese felt he had the authority to compel them to prefix it with a warning label, saying that the film contained propaganda. A weird and offensive violation of rights. Did anyone do that to Ben Stein’s anti-evolution propaganda? It really attacks Meese, not the U.S. Still, the idea that European countries aren’t free, because, gosh, they have some fairly minor censorship laws is kind of absurd. Show me the shackles. Where are the walls and barbed wire at the border crossings? Would you rather live in modern Italy or Germany, or modern Uganda or Iran? If European countries “aren’t free,” I could pray that all mankind enjoyed that level of enslavement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-house-pubs-so-against-impeachment/692588.md?page=6)