# Why are the media ignoring the protest against the ground zero mosque? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367 "2010-06-08T00:48:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/101 "2010-06-09T16:44:30Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > This still isn’t an indictment of Muslims who are currently resident in North America, who are overwhelmingly liberalized and modern. Where did you get the time to meet so many millions of people and sound them out in depth on their views? Or are you just farting out your keyboard? ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/102 "2010-06-09T16:48:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Ethnically _Turkish_? Or Turkic? 😕 Turkish. As in Turks. Turkic refers to folks like… hmmm Azeris and other lads up in Central Asia that speak Turkic languages. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/103 "2010-06-09T16:50:34Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > They’re just…ordinary folk. You’re pooh-poohing the “myth” that most Muslims aren’t radicals or extremists, but _it isn’t a myth_. I have met hundreds, maybe thousands of self-identified Muslims. Unless there’s something really crazy going on, and all of these people I’ve met, who speak different languages and are from different countries and are from different traditions of Islam are all engaging in some wild cover-up to hide their dastardly plan to destroy “our way of life” (which isn’t notably different from their way of life, best as I can tell), well, I’d personally be more afraid of you than I am of them. Because you’re coming off like an unhinged nutter in this thread. Most residents of the USSR under Stalin were nice people, I am sure. Most Germans in Nazi Germany as well. I am talking about an ideology, not individual Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/104 "2010-06-09T16:52:52Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Where did you get the time to meet so many millions of people and sound them out in depth on their views? Or are you just farting out your keyboard? One would guess rather more time than you with your drama queen hysterics and blithe bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/105 "2010-06-09T16:54:12Z")
Yeah, the nerve of that ideology, building its community center within walking distance of Ground Zero. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/106 "2010-06-09T16:56:15Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Most residents of the USSR under Stalin were nice people, I am sure. Most Germans in Nazi Germany as well. I am talking about an ideology, not individual Muslims. You’re comparing the Islamic world with Stalinism? Good fucking Christ, you really are more bigoted, ignorant and deranged than I had thought. Colour me stunned. Comparing a diverse religion with either of the secular totalitarian regimes of 20th century Europe is deranged. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/107 "2010-06-09T17:03:47Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Seriously, **Valteron** , have you ever actually met a Muslim? It’s a bad break for them if he has. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/108 "2010-06-09T17:05:57Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Um. . . . . yes. The Christians and Jews “thrived” under Muslim conquest and domination, paying the special tax charged to Dhimmis. And the fight against ignorance goes on. The Jewish community in Iberia assisted in the Moorish invasion - the time under the Cordoba Caliphate is commonly called the “Golden Age” of Jewish culture in Spain. Special tax? The Jews under Catholic rule in Spain would have counted themselves lucky if they’d gotten away with a special tax. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/109 "2010-06-09T17:25:20Z")
Well, after 1492 there [weren’t](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_Decree) any Jews in Spain because they were all expelled shortly after the surrender of Granada to Ferdinand and Isabella. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/110 "2010-06-09T17:31:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Ethnically _Turkish_? Or Turkic? 😕 Turkish. [Wikipedia entry on the Bulgarian Turks.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Bulgaria) Anyway, that was a really awesome rebuttal, **Valteron**. You continue to look like a crazy person, jsyk. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/111 "2010-06-09T17:45:22Z")
We need to get back to the Muslims naming their little clubhouse “Cordoba House”. Cordoba makes [humidors](http://www.shopping.com/-The+Cordoba+Cigar+Humidor). Mosques hold Muslims. Humidors hold Tobacco. Tobacco kills people. For the love of Ray J, people, do I have to draw you a map? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/112 "2010-06-09T17:45:49Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Where did you get the time to meet so many millions of people and sound them out in depth on their views? Or are you just farting out your keyboard? Go ahead, chuckles, and name as many convicted American-born Muslim terrorists as you can. I’ll wait. If you can come up with even so many as 20 (compared to the anywhere from 2.5 to 7 million Muslims estimated to be current US Citizens) , I’ll revise my statement. Your statement applies nicely to yourself, by the way. Dumbass. Or is this “Valteron is the only person allowed to generalize ever” day and I missed the memo? ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/113 "2010-06-09T17:51:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But you’re right, of course, that most people in New York City just don’t give a shit about stuff like this. But if they start hogging parking spots, _then_ there’s going to be a problem. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/114 "2010-06-09T17:59:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, after 1492 there [weren’t](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_Decree) any Jews in Spain because they were all expelled shortly after the surrender of Granada to Ferdinand and Isabella. Or liquidated via very entertaining bits of torture. No one (except Jews and Muslims) expects the Spanish Inquisition. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/115 "2010-06-09T18:10:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, after 1492 there [weren’t](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_Decree) any Jews in Spain because they were all expelled shortly after the surrender of Granada to Ferdinand and Isabella. That must have been taxing. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/116 "2010-06-09T19:14:10Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > In the first place, I have never said this saintly, moderate, America-loving, non-homophobic, non-sexist, reasonable, peace-loving, pro-freedom, non-violent group of Muslims (gosh, those words look funny next to the word “Muslim”) could NOT build their Mosque near ground zero. Nor did the people at the demo on Sunday. > > They said they should have the good taste not to. What in the world would be in any way “tasteless” about a mosque built by a “saintly, moderate, America-loving, non-homophobic, non-sexist, reasonable, peace-loving, pro-freedom, non-violent group of Muslims”? > [@Valteron](#): > > I am talking about an ideology, not individual Muslims. But as you yourself just admitted, a “saintly, moderate, America-loving, non-homophobic, non-sexist, reasonable, peace-loving, pro-freedom, non-violent group of Muslims” is **NOT** promoting the ideology you find objectionable. So why are you devoting a whole thread to hating on them? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/117 "2010-06-09T19:39:33Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Go ahead, chuckles, and name as many convicted American-born Muslim terrorists as you can. > > I’ll wait. If you can come up with even so many as 20 (compared to the anywhere from 2.5 to 7 million Muslims estimated to be current US Citizens) , I’ll revise my statement. Hamid Hayat John Walker Lindh Ali al-Tamimi Bryant Neal Vinas Jose Padilla Jeff Fort Ahmed Omar Abu Ali Hassan Abu-Jihaad Faysal Galab Mukhtar al-Bakri Yaseinn Taher Shafal Mosed Yahya Goba Sahim Alwan Rafiq Abdus Sabir Tarik Shah Christopher Paul Seifullah Chapman Donald Surratt Randall Todd Royer There are 20. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/118 "2010-06-09T19:58:11Z")
Technically, Donald Surratt was not convicted on any terrorism charges, but rather for firearms violations. Basically, he was involved with a [group of paintball players](http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/02/alleged-coconspirator-testifies-at-virginia-jihad-trial.html), some of whom used the games as training and recruitment for a Kashmiri militant network, but there seems to be no proof that Surratt himself had terrorist aspirations. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/119 "2010-06-09T20:14:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > There are 20. Clearly I should have set the bar higher. In all seriousness, though, you induced me to do a bit more research. As far as I can tell, the number of Muslims living in the US (regardless of citizenship) who have been convicted of terrorist actions in the last several decades is around 90-100. That means, roughly, that there’s a higher bound of somewhere between 0.0014% and 0.0036% (depending on whether you use the low or high numbers of estimated Muslims living in the US) on the percentage of US Muslims who are convicted terrorists. This line of research is also tangential to my initial question, in a way, since it (for example) counts resident aliens and not just US citizens. Does anyone have any accurate data on this? Regardless, it’s clear that SOME US Citizen Muslims perpetrate terrorist attacks. It’s also clear that the number of such who do so is vanishingly small relative to their total population. I’d be interested in numbers of domestic-origin terror plots started by Muslims as opposed to not by Muslims. I have the idea that, historically speaking and based on some preliminary research, that technically Puerto Rican separatists have perpetrated more attacks. On preview: > [@Kimstu](#): > > Technically, Donald Surratt was not convicted on any terrorism charges, but rather for firearms violations. Basically, he was involved with a [group of paintball players](http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/02/alleged-coconspirator-testifies-at-virginia-jihad-trial.html), some of whom used the games as training and recruitment for a Kashmiri militant network, but there seems to be no proof that Surratt himself had terrorist aspirations. I spot-checked a few names for this kind of thing (and also Guantanamo detentions with no trial, etc) but I missed this. My insistence on a strict “conviction” standard might affect this a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/120 "2010-06-09T20:16:06Z")
Ok, so we can replace Chapman with Hammad Abdur-Raheem, another member of the group, who was convicted of providing material support? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367.md?page=7)