# Why are the media ignoring the protest against the ground zero mosque? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367 "2010-06-08T00:48:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/161 "2010-06-09T22:53:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Some idiots who bought the building legally and have already been praying there for months, but are tired of saying their prayers in an abandoned warehouse with a big hole in the roof that was made by the landing gear of one of the planes that hit the World Trade Center. First of all, there’s no hole. It was patched. The people who pray there belong to Al Farah mosque at 245 West Broadway in TriBeCa, where Imam Feisal is the spiritual leader. He calls it “overflow prayer space.” According to google maps, it’s about a 20 minute walk away. Feisal heads up the Cordoba Initiative which via Soho Properties, snatched up the property for $4.85 million in cash. “Cordoba House is a 15-story, $100 million development to be built just 600 feet from where the World Trade Center stood; the plans include the mosque, a 500-seat auditorium, swimming pool, restaurant, and bookstore.” Let’s not pretend this is some poor muslims just looking for a place to pray out of the rain. [According to Zuhdi Jasser](http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/06/06/a_mosque_at_ground_zero/), a physician, US Navy veteran, and founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy. > [@](#): > > “For us, a mosque was always a place to pray, to be together on holidays — not a way to make an ostentatious architectural statement,’’ Jasser said. “Ground zero shouldn’t be about promoting Islam. It’s the place where war was declared on us as Americans.’’ To use that space for Muslim outreach, he argues, is “the worst form of misjudgment.’’ Anyway, that’s about all I’ve got to say about it. Opposition to the mosque isn’t all racists, as dopers love to claim. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/162 "2010-06-09T23:02:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suppose that’s not an unfair assessment, but considering you’re not actually bothering to ask what rights they’re advancing, you’re still being a dick. No matter; I’ve done the legwork for you. > > [Here](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/muslims/interviews/feisal.html)’s a 2002 Frontline interview with Feisal Abdul Rauf, the imam who leads the Cordoba Initiative. And here are his comments, in relevant part: Reading those mealy-mouthed answers is a far cry from the initial impression I got, which was that the Cordoba Initiative was into advancing the rights of women. There are more loopholes in his answers than I could shake a stick at. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/163 "2010-06-09T23:12:16Z")
This may be a propos of nothing, or maybe it is very relevant to this thread, but early results show that Dutch politician Geert Wilders’ Freedom Party has more than doubled its parliamentary standing from 9 seats to 23 seats as a result of today’s election in the Netherlands. It may not sound like a lot in a 150-seat parliament, but they have a multi-party system, and the “winner” party currently is expected to get 33 or 34 seats. **The important fact is that Wilders’ party may hold the balance of power in a coalition.** There is hope that everywhere in the west, people are beginning to wake up and push back. You can dismiss me and everyone else concerned about Islamofascism as a lunatic and bigot if you wish, but something is happening. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/164 "2010-06-09T23:13:19Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > He calls it “overflow prayer space.” According to google maps, it’s about a 20 minute walk away. > . You must also have noticed it’s only _ **THITREEN BLOCKS AWAY** _ from the WTC site. OMG Eleventy!@~!~! ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/165 "2010-06-09T23:17:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suppose that’s not an unfair assessment, but considering you’re not actually bothering to ask what rights they’re advancing, you’re still being a dick. No matter; I’ve done the legwork for you. > > [Here](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/muslims/interviews/feisal.html)’s a 2002 Frontline interview with Feisal Abdul Rauf, the imam who leads the Cordoba Initiative. And here are his comments, in relevant part: After reading both of those quotes from your OH-SO-PROGRESSIVE imam in the Cordoba initiative, I have yet to read one sentence that says in so many words they want specific measures of gender equality and rights for women such as any progressive and liberal person would define them. But I do notice he is fast with the old argument that the west must not tell them what to do! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/166 "2010-06-09T23:22:28Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Taqqiya (the Muslim art of lying to advance the cause) strikes again. It amazes me how easily you people are fooled. And now we’re down to conspiracy-theorist bedrock. If something in the facts appears to be inconsistent with your obsessively held belief, why then, the only possible explanation is that the facts are lies. > [@Valteron](#): > > Look at those words of yours. . . .“advocates for women’s rights IN ISLAM” (emphasis mine). > > […] Reading those mealy-mouthed answers is a far cry from the initial impression I got, which was that the Cordoba Initiative was into advancing the rights of women. They **are** into advancing the rights of women, as shown by their support for the [Shura Council](http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?external_link=www.asmasociety.org/wise/), whose fundamental goal is “to articulate an ethical and egalitarian Islam”, including the acceptance of female Muslim jurists and the abandonment of both violent extremism and violence against women. Its [members](http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?external_link=www.asmasociety.org/wise/) are prominent feminists and women’s rights advocates. Your paranoia is really getting in the way of accurate perception here. > [@Valteron](#): > > I have yet to read one sentence that says in so many words they want specific measures of gender equality and rights for women such as any progressive and liberal person would define them. Well, if you’d actually look up some of the material in the links rather than just poring over quotes that other people have excerpted for you, you might be able to find out more information. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/167 "2010-06-09T23:23:15Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > First of all, there’s no hole. It was patched. The people who pray there belong to Al Farah mosque at 245 West Broadway in TriBeCa, where Imam Feisal is the spiritual leader. He calls it “overflow prayer space.” According to google maps, it’s about a 20 minute walk away. Yes, I know. All of that was made public in previous stories about this, like the one the New York Times ran in December. > [@](#): > > “Cordoba House is a 15-story, $100 million development to be built just 600 feet from where the World Trade Center stood; the plans include the mosque, a 500-seat auditorium, swimming pool, restaurant, and bookstore.” > > Let’s not pretend this is some poor muslims just looking for a place to pray out of the rain. They’re trying to raise the money to do that, but haven’t done so. We’ll see if they can. Anyway, you asked who would want to build a mosque there, and I gave you the answer: people who bought the property and have been praying there for almost a year. No terrorist attacks out of that prayer space yet, by the way. > [@](#): > > URL=“[http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial\_opinion/oped/articles/2010/06/06/a\_mosque\_at\_ground\_zero/](http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/06/06/a_mosque_at_ground_zero/)”]According to Zuhdi Jasser, a physician, US Navy veteran, and founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy. He’s wrong. > [@](#): > > Opposition to the mosque isn’t all racists, as dopers love to claim. You’re right, it’s 99.9% racists. I’ll go home and weep for having slandered innocent people. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/168 "2010-06-09T23:26:25Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > You can dismiss me and everyone else concerned about Islamofascism as a lunatic and bigot if you wish, but something is happening. Being concerned about radical Islamist extremism (what you call “Islamofascism”) isn’t what makes you a lunatic and bigot. Lots of us rational people are also concerned about radical Islamist extremism. What makes you a lunatic and bigot is your delusional insistence on classifying absolutely **everything** with any connection to Islam or Muslims as part of the evil work of “Islamofascism”. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/169 "2010-06-09T23:27:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re right, it’s 99.9% racists. I’ll go home and weep for having slandered innocent people. Oh, I’d say it could be as close as a 75% racist, 25% idiot split. > [@Valteron](#): > > What I meant is "How does Marley 23 know what I do besides post to the message boards? I will not get more specific (I have no intention of being killed by a Muslim fanatic) but how does Marley 23 know that I restrict my activities to just posting on SDMB? Is he here to see the rest of my activities? Important point: My activities are all legal. I do not hijack planes and fly them into building, put bombs on busses, or decapitate Jews and post it on YouTube. Neither, demonstrably, do 99.9973%, minimum, of American Muslims, funnily enough. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/170 "2010-06-09T23:59:56Z")
I have to say, as a Jewish woman, **Valteron** ’s posts fill me with nausea and alarm. Not with terror of the Evil Muslim Conspiracy – but because his sweeping fear-mongering statements about, and utter contempt and hatred for, the entire Muslim community could have come straight out of Joseph Goebbels’s _Reichsministerium für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda_. How shameful it is to defame an entire group of people for the actions of a miniscule number of fundamentalists! 90 Muslim-American terrorists versus millions of perfectly normal, law-abiding Muslim folks, and **Valteron** dismisses them as “one or two decent Muslims”?! Jesus Christ, he even blames a _rape victim_ for not violating her sacred beliefs – as if she hasn’t been violated enough! It was despicable, deplorable bullshit in the 1920s-30s and it’s despicable, deplorable bullshit now. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/171 "2010-06-10T00:12:32Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Taqqiya (the Muslim art of lying to advance the cause) strikes again. It amazes me how easily you people are fooled. Oh, right. Speaking as someone who’s actually read the damn Koran, let’s have a lesson. The doctrine of “taqqiya” is based on Sura 3:28: “Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them.” Contemporary Islamic scholarship suggests that the primary message here is that one is encouraged to maintain friendships within the religion first–similar sentiments are found in Orthodox Jewish thought, in point of fact. One is only permitted, and this is coming from the highest-ranking cleric in freakin’ Iraq (Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani), to lie about your status as a Muslim under taqqiya if you are either A) in fear of persecution for your religion or B) if you are working to engender peace between yourself and non-Muslims who fear Islam. Note that taqqiya, at least as expressly practiced by Shiites, is limited to saying "I am not a Muslim. For the record, al-Sistani is a pretty progressive guy–he’s issued edicts that among other things, Muslim women in Iraq are compelled to vote even if their husbands are backwards and forbid it. He’s consistently worked to keep elections free and fair, and asks that the Shiites do not retaliate in kind against Sunni Salafist terrorist attacks. He’s also pretty stridently opposed to the spread of fundamentalist Wahabbist Islam. Hell, some of the Wahabbists have referred to him as an atheist, which is a good enough endorsement for me. Let’s see, he’s also ruled that Christians and Jews must be treated as ritually pure by those Muslims who are sufficiently orthodox that it’s important to not, for example, eat with a person who is ritually unclean. Hell, he’s in favor of birth control and rules that it’s acceptable for pious Muslim women. Finally, he’s been quoted as saying that he views Islam and the Quran as “providing of values and guidelines for social order”, instead of “Instead of rule by Islamic clerics or ‘The Quran as constitution’”. But I suppose in your worldview, **Valteron** , everything known about this man, including his disputes and calling out of his ostensible co-religionists who are committing acts of terror or spreading fundamentalism, are all “taqqiya” and he secretly wants to burqa up your women and forcibly convert your shaggy ass to Islam. I did in fact type out all his credentials just to see what you’d say about seeing one of the actual faces of modern Islam, in Iraq no less. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/172 "2010-06-10T00:37:04Z")
> [@](#): > > [At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.](http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/kelly/95748769_On_this_ground__zero_tolerance.html?c=y&page=2) > > “Go home,” several shouted from the crowd. > > “Get out,” others shouted. > > In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called “The Way.” Both said they had come to protest the mosque. > > “I’m a Christian,” Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face. > > But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety. I’m guessing that the OP now wishes that the media **would** ignore the protests… ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/173 "2010-06-10T01:47:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Here](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/muslims/interviews/feisal.html)’s a 2002 Frontline interview with Feisal Abdul Rauf, the imam who leads the Cordoba Initiative. And here are his comments, in relevant part: So this wonderfully progressive Feisal Abdul Rauf of the Cordoba Initiative feels it is mainly cultural, not religious? Well then, the last time I checked the cultural norm in North Ameruca was not for women to be draped head to foot with a black veil in front of their faces. Does the fact that people in North America and Europe consider that creepy and alienating have any importance for Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/174 "2010-06-10T01:50:31Z")
I think _you’re_ creepy and alienating, and of no importance to Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/175 "2010-06-10T02:05:41Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Does the fact that people in North America and Europe consider that creepy and alienating have any importance for Muslims? It depends which Muslims you’re talking about. Some Muslims in North America follow the “when in Rome” principle of dressing more or less in accordance with local fashions, and some don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/176 "2010-06-10T02:18:41Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > So this wonderfully progressive Feisal Abdul Rauf of the Cordoba Initiative feels it is mainly cultural, not religious? There’s no question that standards of modesty in clothing are mainly cultural rather than religious. For example: - Some Jews (various Orthodox sects) feel that modesty requires women to wear wigs and headscarves, while other Jews don’t. - Some Christians (such as the Amish, or certain groups of Arab Christians) feel that modesty requires women to cover their heads with a cap or scarf or _hijab_, while other Christians don’t. - Some Muslims feel that modesty requires women to cover their heads and/or veil their faces in front of strangers, while other Muslims don’t. - Some Hindus (for example, certain Rajasthani groups) feel that modesty requires women to keep their faces covered in front of strangers, while other Hindus don’t. Different subcultures within the same religion can and do have different norms for clothing standards. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/177 "2010-06-10T02:50:20Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Blood flowing in the streets of Mumbai, Israel attacked for over 60 years, thousands dead in the WTC, busses blowing up in Britain, trains in Spain, imams preaching holy war against the west, but hey, don’t worry, as long as you can find one or two decent Muslims everything is OK. Don’t you have a blanket you can hide under? What a coward. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/178 "2010-06-10T03:07:58Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > So this wonderfully progressive Feisal Abdul Rauf of the Cordoba Initiative feels it is mainly cultural, not religious? Well then, the last time I checked the cultural norm in North Ameruca was not for women to be draped head to foot with a black veil in front of their faces. > > Does the fact that people in North America and Europe consider that creepy and alienating have any importance for Muslims? Does the fact that he doesn’t actually say women should be draped head to foot with a black veil in front of their faces, and in fact points out that the practice has nothing to do with Islam have any importance to you? Or are you reading between the lines again? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/179 "2010-06-10T03:15:34Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I have to say, as a Jewish woman, **Valteron** ’s posts fill me with nausea and alarm. Not with terror of the Evil Muslim Conspiracy – but because his sweeping fear-mongering statements about, and utter contempt and hatred for, the entire Muslim community could have come straight out of Joseph Goebbels’s _Reichsministerium für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda_. Small world, madam! I happen to have Jewish relatives and I speak German. And I can assure you that one person you would have heard frequently on Herr Doktor Göbbel’s airwaves during Der Dritte Reich would have been the grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a Muslim spiritual and political leader who has been dubbed “the Muslim Hitler”. He made Hitler look like a pro-semite! As Geert Wilders, the Dutch politician (who more than doubled his vote in today’s election in the Nteherlands. . . .hooray!) told the Jerusalem Post a couple of days ago, Israel has been fighting for all of us in the west on the front lines of the world-wide Jihad for more than 60 years. He thanks them and I thank them. Make no mistake about it, what should fill you with nausea and alarm is what Muslims have in mind not only for Israel but for for Jews like you (and gay atheists like me) if they should ever win. From Israel to Mumbai, from Bali to New York to London to Mardid, from Somalia to Afganistan to Iraq to Iran, we are in a bloody world-wide struggle between freedom and Islamic jihad. Israel knows it, and now more and more and more people in the west are waking up and fighting back. Why do you think Wilders’ party did so well in the Netherlands today? Why do you think groups like the English Defence League are spawning sister organizations in France, Germany, Canada, the US and wherever people want to defend our western way of life and values against Islamization and the “Religion of Peace”. Ask Israel how much of a “Religion of Peace” it has been for them for the past six decades. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367/180 "2010-06-10T03:18:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Does the fact that he doesn’t actually say women should be draped head to foot with a black veil in front of their faces, and in fact points out that the practice has nothing to do with Islam have any importance to you? > > Or are you reading between the lines again? :rolleyes: So a progressive Muslim is one who does not actually say that women should be draped into a cloth prison and isolated from society? Wow. I guess with Islam you take your progressives where you can find them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-ignoring-the-protest-against-the-ground-zero-mosque/542367.md?page=10)