# Why are the media so unfair in portraying atheists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367 "2015-04-23T16:42:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/61 "2015-04-23T23:59:38Z")
Atheism isn’t a choice. At least for me. I don’t choose not to believe, I simply don’t. Religion does not make sense. I can’t understand all of the mental gyrations deists have to put themselves through to make themselves believe. What irks me about TV (and books) is the “I hate god” atheist. As if the only reasonable reason not to believe is because something bad happened. It has long been a suspicion of mine that, deep down, no one believes in gods. The believers put themselves through the charade because they need someway to make life, the universe and everything somewhat comprehensible. It appears obvious when we observe the way their everyday lives are conducted in conjunction with their stated beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/62 "2015-04-24T00:05:11Z")
American media, maybe. I notice more favorable portrayals in European cinema. They’re godless heathens over there, bless 'em. Nothing should be done about it. Don’t fall into the PC lib trap. Better propaganda won’t make people like you, nor will it make you feel better about yourself. As an atheist I think a lot of the media stereotypes are actually pretty accurate. Except the “angry at God” angle. That’s just dumb. But yeah, atheists tend to be cynical jerks, even if it’s a tongue in cheek sorta way. A lot can’t contain themselves around openly religious people, especially the recently converted young 20-something men who are over represented on the internet tubes. I’d rather listen to a Scientologist try to pitch an audit to me than an angry atheist rant. If anything, a lot of the media portrayals show a lot of restraint. Probably because most screen writers aren’t exactly Bible thumpers. Something else to consider is that [only 2.4% of American adults](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/23/5-facts-about-atheists/) identify as atheist. I notice atheists tend to conflate atheism with non-denominational spirituality or irreligious groups to pump up the numbers and make us seem more important, or that we’re on some huge upgrowth. We’re not. We’re not particularly important or influential, nor will we be any day soon. We don’t contribute to the wider culture, outside of trolling and flamewars maybe. There’s no reason for the media to give a crap what we think. Like the Dude said, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it’s an ethos. > [@TriPolar](#): > > It is particularly offensive to have atheists suddenly become believers. Offensive, really? Is it problematic too? If anything, it’s realistic. [Atheists have one of the lowest retention rates of any religious belief system.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pew_Forum%27s_U.S._Religious_Landscape_Survey) Depressing, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/63 "2015-04-24T00:30:46Z")
A while back, CNN had an hour-long program about atheists. Most of the people on the show had been religious, or had been raised religious, and had “lost” their religion. Throughout the show, references were made to “losing God,” “turning one’s back on God,” “losing faith,” “abandoning their religiion,” etc. Not just the interviewees, but the host, Kyra Phillips, consistently used these negative phrases to portray atheism as a net loss. The viewer was constantly shown families and religious communities in pain and anguish over the lost souls who had abandoned them. At no point was atheism shown to be something positive, pro-reality and pro-life. At the program’s end was a segment in which the atheists were at least portrayed as neutral and self-accepting. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/64 "2015-04-24T01:43:45Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > A few points: > > 1- Bones has Aspergers. That is why she is robotic and stiff minded. > > 2- There are some “middle ground” Atheists on TV shows that are depicted as being non-jerk, non-judgmental, etc, but I can’t think of any TV show or movie (outside of science fiction) where an ATHEIST character was played as anything but an obnoxious condescending jerk. > > 3- This doesn’t really bother me because most ATHEISTS in real life are cynical and nihilistic and often border line jerks (at least when dealing with people about religious topics). > > 4- I am an ATHEIST. > > 5- I have met some Atheists who were generally relaxed and mellow people. Atheists who didn’t believe in god but didn’t really make a big deal about it one way or another. I have met a lot of ATHEISTS, people for whom the topic of religion and god is a big deal and their ATHEISM is a sort of personal identity. Most, but not all, of these ATHEISTS I have met tended to be cynical and nihilistic and a lot of them can be jerks about religion when dealing with other people on religious topics. > > 6- So on TV, like in life, the ATHEISTS are the most vocal and therefor draw them most attention. > > 7- I too am annoyed at the “science doesn’t know everything” depictions as well as the depiction of an ATHEIST scratching their head in wonder at the end of the show because they can’t explain… I think you’re conflating atheists and anti-theists. There’s overlap, but the two are not identical. Am I right in thinking that it’s no coincidence that **Valteron** started this thread on [Openly Secular Day](http://www.openlysecularday.org/)? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/65 "2015-04-24T01:54:04Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > …Now imagine for a second how likely this would be in a TV program: a religious believer and an atheist debate whether God really does watch over us like a loving Father. And just as the show ends they are watching TV and the newscaster reports the recent story (this really happened a few days ago) in which one person died and 18 were gravely ill from botulism at a church picnic. The program ends as the atheist grins smugly and the religious believer stands there looking foolish. How likely are we to see this anytime soon?.. It sounds like thou art describing an SNL skit from the 70s my child. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/66 "2015-04-24T02:06:36Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > IIRC, Malcolm Reynolds on Firefly was an atheist and portrayed in a good light. River Tam “correcting” the errors in the Bible was much more entertaining. > [@](#): > > **River Tam:** Bible’s broken. Contradictions, false logistics - doesn’t make sense. > _[she’s marked up the bible, crossed out passages and torn out pages]_ > > \*\*Book: \*\*No, no. You-you-you can’t… > > \*\*River Tam: \*\*So we’ll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God’s creation of Eden. Eleven inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. Noah’s ark is a problem. > > **Book:** Really? > > \*\*River Tam: \*\*We’ll have to call it early quantum state phenomenon. Only way to fit 5000 species of mammal on the same boat. ---
**Author:** ![Teach-me-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a4c791/32.png) [@Teach-me-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach-me-not)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/67 "2015-04-24T02:26:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Avoided?! _Futurama_ went out of its way to mock religion. A passing reference to the Second Coming of Jesus is mentioned in a blasé tone and only because for some reason it was related to the destruction of most of the world’s videotapes. Ya, as I suspected, my memory was just lucky. I should have skipped the whole Futurama reference. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/68 "2015-04-24T02:29:41Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Re Star Trek > > Gene Roddenberry was an atheist and felt humanity would outgrow religion. While there was occasional talk of souls (Spock’s funeral, the judge’s ruling in the TNG ep The Measure Of A Man), all the humans were believed to be atheists. The Klingons have Kahless and other gods. The Ferengi have gods. The Bajorans believe the beings who dwell in non-linear time in the wormhole are gods. The Vulcans used to have gods, but no longer believe in them. [Worf tells us about Klingon gods](https://youtu.be/m0yVUaL9CWs) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/69 "2015-04-24T02:29:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Even granting the thread premise for the sake of argument, it’s not something I anticipate claiming to be victimized by. This. Geez. It’s like being on the other side of the “Christian Persecution” coin. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/70 "2015-04-24T03:22:44Z")
What’s next, a war on Happy Holidays? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/71 "2015-04-24T04:05:23Z")
It’s true that you often get religious characters in TV and movies shown in a negative light, but generally it’s not a criticism of religion but of hypocrisy and extremity in the practice of it. On the other hand, atheism is treated as though it is itself a form of hypocrisy, as though the atheist is being obtuse about what is obviously right in front of them. And then they are dismissed by throwing in at the last minute an incident we’re supposed to take as providing evidence of God’s work. And of course unlike in the real world, the TV miracles are not at all vague and being massaged by copious wishful thinking. The argument that science doesn’t know everything, therefore P, where P is whatever the fuck you want because apparently anything goes, exposes a fundamental flaw in our education about science. When the religious try to cram what they want to believe in the epistemic space left unsatisfactorily filled by science, we call it The God of the Gaps. The problem is that insisting that God must be whatever fits in those cracks means that God is effectively diminished whenever light actually shines in those dark corners. Likewise, there’s this guy Bill Maher who purports to be an athiest, but uses an argument just like The God of the Gaps to rationalize his enthusiasm for pseudoscience in medicine. The discipline of science requires that it is not a legitimate move to cram whatever you want to believe into gaps in knowledge. That’s why the gaps exist in scientific knowledge, because scientists require a good reason to fill them. When you move outside of areas carefully delineated reliable claims to knowledge, you have not entered a magical fairy land where all your fantasies are true, as Maher and others seem to think. In the alternate-earth novel Anathem, instead of talking about what we call Occam’s Razor they talk about Dyax’s Rake. The idea is that an ancient philosopher named Dyax is said to have snatched up a rake and chased out of the garden people who believed in things because they wanted them to be true. We need to promote a concept like that in our world. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/72 "2015-04-24T12:37:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > on the few shows that dare to feature atheists, constant “evidence”(and sometimes even blatant miracles) are thrown in their faces, and almost always by the end of the episode there is some small doubt as to whether the incident was natural or supernatural in nature. This allows the audience to hope that the atheist will eventually develop into a “normal” human being. Dude. TV is all about networks selling eyeballs to advertisers. Why would production companies/networks make shows that go against the tide of bootlicking theists? It’s all about the $$$$$$$ and the suckers (who are the majority) are the ones that buy the crap that is pushed in every commercial break. (you know this) ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/73 "2015-04-24T12:41:59Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’m pretty sure Hodgins is an atheist on “Bones” as well, but he’s not portrayed as awkward, or unsympathetic or lacking in empathy at all; if anything he’s the voice of empathy for the “squints”. > > Wasn’t Meathead on “All in the Family” an atheist as well? And then there’s that Obama guy who shows up on the TeeVee a lot. I’m pretty sure hes an atheist and he gets \*lots \*of play. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/74 "2015-04-24T14:49:06Z")
It’s a War on Atheism! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/75 "2015-04-24T16:00:40Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > A classic example is the character Temperance Brennan in the series “Bones”. She has all the classic traits of the “deficient, soul-less” stereotype. While Bones is depicted as very intelligent, she nonetheless has a lot of trouble understanding humour. > > At other times, in spite of her high IQ, she is incapable of feeling empathy. For example, when she meets a “little person” she unknowingly makes him and others around him uncomfortable by asking point-blank what sort of dwarfism he suffers from. The implication in the scene is NOT that she is evil or cruel. It is that “godless” people must be lacking in the ability to think of others’ feelings. You do know Bones and Brennan is based on a real person and her novels right? So this is a bad example because “the media” is not responsible for the way Bones is, the author is so you gotta blame the author. > [@](#): > > And what should we do about it? I say we do an Occupy Wall Street style protesting in front of these evil media and break their windows and poop in their doorways. That’ll show em what for. > [@Jophiel](#): > > And Bender spent part of an episode floating in space and talking to God. > > “I was a god once” > “Yes, I saw. You were doing well until everyone died.” But that wasn’t God. That was the remains of a computerized space probe that collided with God. Even the remains of the computerized space probe that collided with God thought that that was probable. > [@Valteron](#): > > Come to think of it, so is the character of Sheldon Copper. He fails to understand humour or sarcasm, and he makes hurtful comments without realizing they are hurtful. Which has nothing to do with atheism. He’s written that way because he is also based on a real life person that Bill Prady knew. So again this is not the medias fault it is realitys’ fault. > [@Jophiel](#): > > I think you’re looking at it backwards. Bones’ personality (Aspergers or not) is one of rationality and literalness that causes her to be excellent at her job, despite the social awkwardness. Because of her scientific proclivity, she is an atheist. Her atheism has zero to do with her social issues. She’s not an “atheist who is also incapable of humour or empathy”, her atheism is a distant secondary consideration to her primary traits. Shhhhhh. Stop being rational. We’re trying to retroactively find evidence for our persecution complex. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/76 "2015-04-24T16:06:45Z")
This is the way of TV and the movies as to everyone. Lawyers are often portrayed as sleazeballs. Fathers are often bumbling idiots. Women in general are over-sexualized. Rural people and religious people are The Other (spoiler alert: whenever a southerner or a Christian is introduced at the beginning of Law & Order, they turn out to be the killer). Corporate executives have no souls, and office life is typically portrayed as torture. This has probably been true forever; I imagine some people attended Shakespeare’s plays and came away grumbling, “knighthood’s not like _that_.” ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/77 "2015-04-24T16:26:21Z")
As an athiest, I think athesists are portrayed extremely accurately in the media, in that most of them never mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/78 "2015-04-24T16:45:33Z")
**The Americans** - the two main protagonists Philip and Elizabeth Jennings are clearly atheist. A major thread in the series has been their daughter Paige embracing Christanity and the difficulties her parents have coping with her faith. (Ok, yes, Philip and Elizabeth are also covert communist spies, assassins and all-around shady anti-heroes, but they are NOT the stereotypical robotic automatons athiests are portrayed as. **Torchwood** - This show never explicitly stated the characters were atheists, but it does make the point from episode one, scene one that there is NO afterlife. When a person dies, they are effectively “shut off” like a machine. Several characters get “reactivated” (brought back to life) and relate that there was simply nothing after their last moment. That’s it. No going through a long tunnel and being greeted by deceased family and friends, no heaven or hell, no reincarnation. (Yes the show wavered on this point a few times in certain episodes, but it would invariably re-affirm this point in a later episode.) In a way, that’s more daring than having a character express a belief in atheism - because an atheist character can always be shown (or at least hinted) to be wrong. On _Torchwood_, atheism is depicted as being true. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/79 "2015-04-24T16:48:20Z")
I’m not sure I buy the OP’s premise. Pop quiz: in a standard Hollywood action movie, a supporting character quotes the Bible and invokes God. What will we find out later: 1. He’s a brave idealist, who will save the world. 2. He will give his life to save the movie’s main protagonist 3. He will preach to the villain, and convert him to Christianity 4. He will turn out to be a heartless villain who betrays and tries to kill the hero. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367/80 "2015-04-24T17:12:02Z")
Yeah, other than religious-themed shows (a la _Touched by an Angel_), I don’t see a whole lot of positive portrayals of religious people on TV. Typically they are portrayed as a negative stereotype: The Judgmental Christian, The Evil Muslim, The Hypocrite, The Dotty Old Lady. The Blind Atheist fits right in the rest of these types. Good shows, when dealing with a character’s religious beliefs or lack thereof, are sometimes more nuances. I love a show with a realistic, sympathetic atheist _or_ a realistic, sympathetic believer - having characters of both kinds is a big plus. But most entertainment - especially TV - will avoid those topics so as to not offend anyone. There are shows that have smart, well-adjusted atheists just as there are shows that have smart, well-adjusted priests or churchgoers. But I think we all tend to remember the portrayals of our own beliefs that annoy us and end up with a bit of confirmation bias. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-media-so-unfair-in-portraying-atheists/718367.md?page=5)