# Why are the voting machines even touch screen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 6, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128 "2012-11-06T19:28:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/41 "2012-11-10T14:06:09Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > That machine exists, it’s called the ESS AutoMark ([http://www.essvote.com/HTML/products/automark.html](http://www.essvote.com/HTML/products/automark.html)). It operates as an electronic voting machine, with view screens & audio prompts, and then prints out a ballot that has the bubbles filled in for the voters choices, but is otherwise identical to human-filled-in ones. … > > It’s probably the best of the electronic voting machines, but the paper-and-pen system is better. This can be used in conjunction with that system, for disabled voters. The thing is - why replicate the entire ballot -especially where the ballot runs to 10 pages? Simply print out a summary of how the person voted, in both human and machine readable form. This condenses and eliminates clutter, speeding any future recount. The choices are clear and concise, making it easier for the voter toverify his choices were marked correctly. And- it leaves a paper trail. However, compared to ATM or Airline Kiosk - there’s immediate feedback there. If the airline won’t check you in, or the ATM asks you “You want to withdraw 10 cents?” (Or the ATM says “withdraw $10,000?”) you know you’ve made a mistake. With voting mistakes, the only feedback is when you invade Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/42 "2012-11-10T15:58:32Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Some of the basic reasons are that all those paper ballots need to be moved to the central voting site for the county, city or district, and in a lot of cases you need to have observers and police involved. Then they need to be sealed and locked up until you verify whether or not an automatic recount is necessary. Then they need to be stored long term (a lot of our counties store them until the next election, some store them 2 years). Then they need to be disposed of. All of that takes continuing resources and can be a huge pain in the ass. All of these reasons are _ **benefits** _ and not problems! Elections are serious business. It should be hard to tamper with results. There should be a verifiable audit trail. We should be able to go back and see if mistakes or malfeasance occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/43 "2012-11-10T17:42:24Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The 2008 Minnesota senatorial [election](http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1859543,00.html) showed the unique [limitations](http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2008/11/19_challenged_ballots/round1/) of fill-in-the-oval paper ballots, including overvotes and ambiguous marks. I’m not saying that that’s necessarily enough reason to go electronic, just that paper is not trouble-free. But most problems like overvotes and stray marks are caught by the ballot counting machine, which spits them back to the voter. Then the voter can spoil her ballot and get a new one, which she will hopefully fill out better. I think that a lot of the examples in your cite were absentee ballots. Voting absentee you don’t get a chance to redo the ballot. In the precinct I’m head judge in, the 2008 recount found 1 miscounted vote out of 1500-1600 votes cast. I’m betting that it was an absentee ballot. As an election judge, and as a voter, I’m glad that Minnesota law forbids the use of any voting method that doesn’t involve a paper ballot. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/44 "2012-11-10T18:52:32Z")
I agree with the need for a paper trail, and think it’s a good idea to print out a summary and not the entire ballot. As was suggested upstream, just the selected candidates and corresponding bar cords. The machines could set programed to catch errors. The only question is if it’s worth it financially. Scanners and pencils are cheaper, although slower. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/48 "2017-09-28T19:37:35Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > … > > In California we use Ink-A-Vote, which I think is what others are describing–you black out little bubbles, the ballot get scanned, but there is a paper trail. They even give you a numbered receipt for your ballot though I’m not sure what good that does. In California, I vote by mail (actually, I usually just drop off the ballot at City Hall). Oregon has gone entirely to mail in ballots, doing away with polling locations, and saving money. The way to go, IMO, and this flap about voting machines becomes moot. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/49 "2017-09-28T19:57:39Z")
[Moderating] This thread was bumped by a spammer, whose post has now been disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/50 "2017-09-29T02:21:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Because after the 2000 election, liberals demanded electronic voting machines so we wouldn’t have to deal with “hanging chads” again. Absolutely false. More the opposite is true, actually. Anti-liberals were furious that the Florida vote recount was going on and on, and wanted to shut it down. They used the Republican controlled Supreme Court to force the issue. The “hanging chad” problem was a real one, and was the result of ANOTHER bad idea being used to make voting machines in Florida. Specifically, someone thought that punching out pre-cut tabs in order to physically select a choice, was a good way to make it clear how you wanted to vote. Compared to trying to read a pencil mark, that does SEEM smarter. But as a way to do a recount later,it was a complete failure. I would be willing to bet real money, that the people who decided to use those pre-cut punch cards, never once bothered to think through a recount, and certainly didn’t TEST such a scenario. If they had, they would have discovered as the recounters did, that pre-cut punches tend to start falling out on their own, when the card is run through a machine to count or sort it a couple of times. And even just dropping it in a box, and then getting it out again to try to read it can cause “chads” to fall out. Notice, by the way, that it isn’t the so-called “liberals” who are fanatically demanding all sorts of changes to voting systems and rules across the country for the last two decades. That’s the paranoid ANTI-liberals doing that. As for why people come up with whichever voting machine choice they do, that’s most likely to be less due to evil plots, than it is due to the fact that the people who are put in charge of making such decisions, are rarely experts in technology and how it can fail. They are usually low level bureaucrats, who end up picking whatever they think the latest cool-looking technology of the moment is, and unless they are forced to, they don’t actually test the system they choose rigorously in a challenging situation. I DESPISE the setup Virginia is using right now. They took away my curtained booth, where I could make my selections in private and cast my ballot before coming out again, and now I have to choose things on a giant card that I must write on in front of everyone else, at a table in a huge room, and then carry to a voting machine at the front of the room, and feed in, as though I am putting it into a shredder. I get NO confirming screen, to indicate that my vote was counted as I recorded it. I have to trust that they electronically read my choices as I scribbled them. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/51 "2017-09-29T17:11:22Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > The “hanging chad” problem was a real one, and was the result of ANOTHER bad idea being used to make voting machines in Florida. Specifically, someone thought that punching out pre-cut tabs in order to physically select a choice, was a good way to make it clear how you wanted to vote. Compared to trying to read a pencil mark, that does SEEM smarter. The bad idea was expecting all Americans to [ul] [li]Read directions[/li][li]Follow directions[/li][li]Poke a hole in pre-perforated paper with a metal stick.[/li][/ul] No one ever lost money betting on the stupidity of Americans. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/52 "2017-09-29T17:14:37Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > I DESPISE the setup Virginia is using right now. They took away my curtained booth, where I could make my selections in private and cast my ballot before coming out again, and now I have to choose things on a giant card that I must write on in front of everyone else, at a table in a huge room, and then carry to a voting machine at the front of the room, and feed in, as though I am putting it into a shredder. I get NO confirming screen, to indicate that my vote was counted as I recorded it. I have to trust that they electronically read my choices as I scribbled them. This is actually the setup used in the old Soviet Union, where you marked your ballot in front of everyone. You could use a curtained booth, if you liked, but Party member proudly marked their ballots and announced their choices. Anyone going into a booth would be asked some very pointed questions. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/53 "2017-09-29T17:24:21Z")
A touch screen makes it easier to offer multiple language options. IIRC, the touch screens in Maryland can be adjusted to large print for the visually impaired. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/54 "2017-09-29T20:01:04Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > The state I live in, NC, does a lot of things wrong. But the voting system it uses is the best. > > It’s a simple paper ballot; you fill in the circles with black ink, and it gets scanned. That’s great, but what if you’re disabled? A big “sell” of the voting machines in the first place is that disabled voters don’t have to disclose their vote to someone else. Sure, it’s done in a controlled setting, but it still sucks. So that’s definitely a positive enabled by computerized voting machines. Does it outweigh the negative? I don’t know. But in a lot of these discussions people just say flat-out “computerized voting machines are terrible!” and don’t even consider the reason they were purchased in the first place, which really bugs me. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/55 "2017-09-29T20:08:54Z")
Aw! I got caught up with a zombie post again. Would be nice if this forum had some sort of UI to warn people they’re about to reply to a thread that’s X years old. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/56 "2017-09-29T22:38:04Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Because people demand to know who won by 5 minutes after the polls close. At some of the polls I’ve been to (I usually vote by mail), the poll worker runs your ballot with the filled-in bubbles through the scanner immediately when the voter hands it in. Of course, it’s all electronic from that point on. So the results (from in-person voting at least) should be possible to be available very quickly, in theory anyway. ETA: > [@running\_coach](#): > > Human error and fatigue can lead to miscounts. Electronic has the advantage of accuracy and a fast review of the record. And running bubble-ballots through a scanner should avoid these problems too. ETA-2: Upon reading more of the thread, I see I’ve been effectively ninjaed by almost everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128/57 "2017-10-01T20:40:14Z")
I just spent a day this week doing additional training as an Election Judge, with new equipment. We are changing from lists of all registered on big computer-printed paper that each voter signs to an electronic ipad system where we check in the voter & verify their info, then it prints a receipt that they sign, and exchange for a paper ballot like before. Also, any of the ipad stations can also register a new voter, with proper id. So instead of having 2 lines, one for pre-registered voters and one for new voters, both will be combined in one line at the polls now. It should be faster. But I do worry about the possibility of problems. What happens if something goes wrong with this system? Is there a backup system for this? If there are problems that make it slower, we have long lines, and many people leave rather than wait to vote. Especially poor, working-class (mostly Democratic) voters. So I worry about Russian hacking. They wouldn’t have to get in and actually change votes – just making it slow with long lines would, in our area, tilt the vote toward Republicans. I know I’ve read about Russian penetration into many voting systems. I’ve searched online, but i can’t seem to find which specific companies & machines have been penetrated. I’d really like to know if the new system we are switching to\* is one of those that has already been hacked. \*PollPad, by KnowInk Inc. run by Scott Leiendecker, a Republican Election Director from Missouri. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-voting-machines-even-touch-screen/640128.md?page=2)