# why are there butches? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 14, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264 "2003-03-14T04:56:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264/1 "2003-03-14T04:56:12Z")
i get the impression that between gays and lesbians couples, one is usually more manlike, and the other womanlike. my question is why gays would want their SO to look like women and lesbians want their SO to look like men?? it must be pretty obvious, but i simply don’t get it… ---
**Author:** ![Daowajan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Daowajan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daowajan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264/2 "2003-03-14T07:10:38Z")
I think people are so used to seeing a man and a woman in each relationship, they start looking at gay and lesbian relationships as having a “male” figure (aggressive, butchy, etc) and a “female” figure (submissive, feminine.) I think if you compared any given two people in this way, one would appear more masculine than the other. Anyway, that’s my theory. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264/3 "2003-03-14T07:14:46Z")
I agree with Daowajan. While there certainly are gay men who are consciously feminine and gay women who are consciously masculine, it’s hardly the norm to arrange your relationship that way. ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264/4 "2003-03-14T13:55:23Z")
Not all lesbians would like their partners to look butch, and not all gay men would like their partners to look like queens or fairies or fems, or whatever the term is. It is very personal. You’re born gay, male or female, there’s isn’t really anything you can do about that fact, let alone reverse it. Now women and men are either going to be their own gender’s stereotype, or they’;re going to be closer to the middel. Just like it is with heterosexual people. You have really feminine women, you have really manly women, too, or toy-boys as girls, and these people aren;'t necessarily gay. It’s just the way nature works. As they say here in Ireland: God needs his/her number of each. What the pairing of these people is concerned then, again, i think that is a very persoanl decision. There is a dominant and a submissive force within most relationships, homo or hetero. if you’re the kind of person that needs a pair of strong arms to protect you, you’re going to look for those, gay or straight. A hetero male might want a strong bulky female, to wear ther pants in the relationship, and the same goes for gays. It depends on the kind of person that YOU are, and the kind of partner YOU are looking for, whether your gay or not. We scrutinize gay relationships a bit more, maybe, as they are still not the norm, and therefor we’re curious about them. maybe that is why these fem and butch relationships are so noticeable to us. But try and see: you can apply that rule to most couples. And there are fem and fem relationships, and butch and butch ones… ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264/5 "2003-03-14T13:58:30Z")
Not all lesbians would like their partners to look butch, and not all gay men would like their partners to look like queens or fairies or fems, or whatever the term is. It is very personal. You’re born gay, male or female, there’s isn’t really anything you can do about that fact, let alone reverse it. Now women and men are either going to be their own gender’s stereotype, or they’;re going to be closer to the middel. Just like it is with heterosexual people. You have really feminine women, you have really manly women, too, or toy-boys as girls, and these people aren’t necessarily gay. Likewise you’ve got very sensitive men, feminine men that aren’t gay, and you have really burly rugged looking men that ARE gay It’s just the way nature works. As they say here in Ireland: God needs his/her number of each. What the pairing of these people is concerned then, again, i think that is a very personal decision. There is a dominant and a submissive force within most relationships, homo or hetero. if you’re the kind of person that needs a pair of strong arms to protect you, you’re going to look for those, gay or straight. A hetero male might want a strong bulky female, to wear the pants in the relationship, and the same goes for gays. It depends on the kind of person that YOU are, and the kind of partner YOU are looking for, whether your gay or not. We scrutinize gay relationships a bit more, maybe, as they are still not the norm, and therefor we’re curious about them. maybe that is why these fem and butch relationships are so noticeable to us. But try and see: you can apply that rule to most couples. And there are fem and fem relationships, and butch and butch ones… ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264/6 "2003-03-14T14:04:53Z")
**Why are there butches?** _Somebody_ has to use up all that wax. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264/7 "2003-03-14T15:27:53Z")
Recommended reading: _Odd Girls and Twilight Lovers_ by Lillian Faderman. Explains the whole butch/femme thing. ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264/8 "2003-03-14T15:43:29Z")
I have never had a relationship that fell into the butch/femme, queen/king type of thing. I simply look for men who are comfotable being themselves and sexually adventurous. ---
**Author:** ![Tiburon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e36b37/32.png) [@Tiburon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiburon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264/9 "2003-03-14T17:38:12Z")
I believe that was touched on [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69670) It may also answer more of some of the more broad questions. Tibs. ---
**Author:** ![Tiburon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e36b37/32.png) [@Tiburon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiburon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-butches/161264/10 "2003-03-14T18:43:11Z")
Well, that didn’t make a whole lot of sense, did it? I meant: It may also answer some of the more broad (as in scope) questions.