# Why are there "Massage Parlors" in the Unites States? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 20, 2021, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289 "2021-03-20T08:25:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/101 "2021-03-24T16:56:40Z")
Since the OP has been answered factually and the thread has moved on towards debate territory, let’s move this to GD. I think the rest of this thread will do much better once it is no longer bumping up against the restrictions of GQ. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/102 "2021-03-24T18:28:15Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > On the other hand, never been to Dayton, but aren’t there [tart cards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tart_card)? Heh, I clicked on the wikipedia link, and it said “not to be confused with tarot cards.” No kidding. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/103 "2021-03-25T13:02:54Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > As far as the constitutionality argument, the Lawrence case gives the strongest support for it. That was the case that ruled that sodomy laws were unconstitutional and it contains pretty strong language that says that what adults do in private with regards to sex is their own business. The opinion does throw around “non-commercial” a few times but doesn’t justify that distinction in any meaningful way. Yes, many things are legal to give away but illegal to sell, but all of those things have legitimate reasons for doing so, whereas making sex illegal to sell is simply a morals law which Lawrence forbids. We’re in GD. This is one of those situations where I actually favor the legislative solution. Simply have the various legislatures repeal the various laws in question, and the problem is solved. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/104 "2021-03-25T13:13:24Z")
Too late to edit. Of course, there should be sensible regulations as to things like testing, identity verification to make sure the brothel management isn’t hiring people that have been trafficked, etc. But fundamentally, these laws are still in place because some people are trying to enforce their morality. I honestly doubt they serve the public good overall. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/105 "2021-03-25T15:18:59Z")
Probably the best solution, but the GOP wont even let us legalize Pot. And they fought tooth and nail against gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/106 "2021-03-25T16:25:21Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > And perhaps a number of Asian massage parlors ride off the impression without intending to offer the service. **Chris Rock:** No matter what they tell you, there is no sex in the Asian Room. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/107 "2021-03-25T23:54:06Z")
Wage theft is estimated to be $2 billion (with a b) annually in California alone. The average worker effected loses $3300 per year. That should be grand theft. If someone was extorting $300 a month from a few dozen people, what would you call them? ---
**Author:** ![yarblek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/71e660/32.png) [@yarblek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yarblek)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/108 "2021-03-26T13:10:43Z")
In post number 49, you provided an argument that I interpret generally as follows: > [@](#): > > Premise 1: Bill is legally/morally allowed to give away X to Bob. _I agree with this._ > > Premise 2: Bob is legally/morally allowed to receive Y from Bill for free. _I also agree with this._ > > Conclusion: Therefore, Bill/Bob should be legally/morally allowed to _trade_ X for Y or vice-versa. _I do not always agree with this._ Is this a fair general form to the example you made in post 49? I responded by replacing X with human organs to show that if it were true, organ selling should be okay. You said that I can’t do that. Why not? **I did not change the form of the argument.** I could also replace X with other things. In many (most?) societies, X can’t legally/morally be: 1. Sexual acts 2. Human organs or body parts 3. Infants/children 4. Unrestricted child labor Therefore, the general argument is not persuasive. It is fine to believe 1 should not be illegal, but your argument doesn’t demonstrate that. Otherwise, it would also demonstrate that 2, 3 and 4 should also be legal. The following sentences illustrate it: “It’s legal to give [human organs or body parts to a] stranger. It’s legal to give money to a stranger. The only thing that’s illegal is to say out loud that the two are related.” “It’s legal to [give a child to a] stranger [for adoption]. It’s legal to give money to a stranger. The only thing that’s illegal is to say out loud that the two are related.” “It’s legal [for a child to volunteer for a] stranger. It’s legal to give money to [that child]. The only thing that’s illegal is to say out loud that the two are related.” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/109 "2021-03-26T16:29:42Z")
You still make no distinction between the literal and the metaphorical. I have a friend who is a novelist. He teaches at an art school. Often, a painter or sculptor will give him a work they have made as a gift. He says that this makes him uncomfortable, because all he has to give them in return is a copy of one of his books. In this exchange, the artist no longer has the artwork. But my friend still has his book, and he can continue to give it away over and over again. They are not the same. ---
**Author:** ![yarblek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/71e660/32.png) [@yarblek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yarblek)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/110 "2021-03-27T05:08:24Z")
Unrestricted child labor is pretty much the same as compared to sex work in that they both can be given again and again. So why is unrestricted child labor not okay but sex work is if post number 49 is all that is required to demonstrate the difference between the two (because, post 49 does not, in fact, demonstrate any difference)? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/111 "2021-03-27T20:44:26Z")
An ex of mine was a legitimate, licensed massage therapist. It was, IIRC, the only type of professional license in Chicago at the time that required a negative syphillis test. (Of course more than once he had clients assume he was the other kind. He took a side gig at a local extremely mainstream 5-star hotel once; during the gym hours, that’s where massages happened, but outside of gym hours, the side gig involved going to the client’s hotel room. He had a few guys assume he was the other kind of masseur, and finally asked one of them what made him think he was up for erotic massage. The answer: “well, that’s what the last guy did!” Apparently the last guy had been fired by management when they found out about it.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/112 "2021-03-27T21:37:56Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Simply have the various legislatures repeal the various laws in question, and the problem is solved. Ah, but the legislators are aware that kind of people who are highly motivated to vote in primaries are also the ones highly motivated by making their code of behavior morals be put into the law. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/113 "2021-04-08T01:20:34Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > You still make no distinction between the literal and the metaphorical. How is that distinction relevant to the legal claim in question? Where does the constitution address the difference between selling a limited quantity good, and an infinitely renewable service? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/114 "2021-04-08T01:21:46Z")
That’s not the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/115 "2021-04-08T01:24:11Z")
Then what is? (I edited a couple typos right after I posted that, which you might not have seen when you made your response - not sure if that changes anything.) ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/116 "2021-04-08T01:28:39Z")
The actual distinction is pretty obvious. I’ve already addressed it. You want to give it another think? Or risk embarrassment? 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/117 "2021-04-08T01:34:58Z")
This slapfight is boring. Just openly state what you think the difference is, please. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/118 "2021-04-08T01:35:51Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > As I understand it, these are simply storefront bordellos. Please correct me if I am wrong. Why in the world are they allowed to remain open? Do they have some legal cover I do not understand? To get back to the original question, there is a substantial difference between knowing that some massage parlors operate as fronts for prostitution and having evidence of this that will stand up in a court of law. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/119 "2021-04-08T02:04:18Z")
My ego’s pretty resilient. Why don’t you just lay it on me? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289/120 "2021-04-08T10:59:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > evidence of this that will stand up in a court of law. Would you care to rephrase that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-massage-parlors-in-the-unites-states/938289.md?page=7)