# Why are there no fat Japanese ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447 "2014-07-30T21:28:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/1 "2014-07-30T21:28:55Z")
In the UK, this is the height of the tourist season, and once again, I am struck by how the Japanese visitors are always incredibly slim and trim, in sharp contradistinction to the tourists of Caucasian origin, many of whom (both male and female ) sport bellies which cry out for the attentions of a personal trainer. My question is whether this is genetic or environmental . Is the trim physique of the Japanese down to different dietary habits, or is it an inherited racial characteristic ? When the Japanese _ **really really** _ try to put weight on, they can do it, as evidenced by the impressive physiques of the champion Sumo wrestlers, but my understanding is that when these wrestlers retire, they shed the excess weight rapidly in a matter of weeks or months, and quickly revert to a normal physique. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/2 "2014-07-30T21:30:31Z")
Careful, you’re going to get slammed by people saying you’re generalizing or making “all/none” statements. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cookiecuttercc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@cookiecuttercc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cookiecuttercc)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/3 "2014-07-30T21:32:20Z")
1. lots of walking; 2. soda is viewed as a treat, not as a side dish; 3. sugary desserts are rarer than in the West; 4. lots of veggies; 5. beef is expensive so almost by default you eat more fish, rice, veg. ps, a lot of sumo nowadays are non-Japanese (particularly many Polynesians) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/4 "2014-07-30T21:32:27Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > My question is whether this is genetic or environmental . Is the trim physique of the Japanese down to different dietary habits, or is it an inherited racial characteristic ? I hate to say both, but I think it’s both. At the same time, there are some Japanese who seem not to get fat even on an unhealthy diet. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/5 "2014-07-30T21:42:41Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > In the UK, this is the height of the tourist season, and once again, I am struck by how the Japanese visitors are always incredibly slim and trim, in sharp contradistinction to the tourists of Caucasian origin, many of whom (both male and female ) sport bellies which cry out for the attentions of a personal trainer. 1. The Brits shouldn’t be pointing at the bellies of tourists, as they themselves are the most overweight nation in Europe (ignoring Iceland and Malta) 2. Exercise is rather questionable as a weight loss method I recently became aware of the food palatability theory of obesity: people are heavy because they can’t resist highly rewarding food. I guess rice, whale and seaweed are less palatable than whatever it is we tend to eat in Europe these days. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/6 "2014-07-30T21:44:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I hate to say both, but I think it’s both. [Nope](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2031486). Immigration gives us plenty of data. For example, Japanese Americans in California or Hawaii. First and second generation Japanese immigrants have higher BMI and rates of heart disease than their counterparts in Japan. Maybe still lower than people without recent immigrant ancestors, but that looks to be attributable in part due to maintaining at least some aspects of their traditional diets. This isn’t true for just the Japanese but all immigrants to the US. Differences in lifestyle (car culture) and diet (more fat) affect pretty much every human being. After a few generations, there’s not much difference, obesity wise. Of course, in the mainland US, there just aren’t that many 3rd or beyond generation Asian Americans, even in places like California. Outnumbered by more recent immigrants and their children. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/7 "2014-07-30T21:47:19Z")
The Japanese Ministry of Health is also a \*\*lot \*\*more…[proactive](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/world/asia/13fat.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) when it comes to combating obesity (or ‘metabo’ as it is referred to), along with other factors like more expensive food resulting in less consumption and what is consumed being healthier, along with more people walking and less automobile use. \*“The average person in Japan consumes over 200 fewer calories per day than the average American. Food prices are substantially higher in Japan, but the traditional Japanese dietary habits, although changing, are also healthier.”\*[http://ideas.repec.org/p/ags/umrfwp/14321.html](http://ideas.repec.org/p/ags/umrfwp/14321.html) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/8 "2014-07-30T21:54:20Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > 1. The Brits shouldn’t be pointing at the bellies of tourists, as they themselves are the most overweight nation in Europe (ignoring Iceland and Malta) According to the [CIA World Factbook,](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2228rank.html) the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Malta, Hungary, and Lithuania have higher obesity rates than the UK. Iceland is much lower. The lowest countries in Europe are France and Switzerland, despite a traditional diet high in butter and cheese. Japan at #157 is in fact the lowest developed country on the list. It’s in fact lower than many Third World countries where actual hunger is prevalent. (It’s no mystery why countries like Eritrea, Bangladesh, Nepal, and Ethiopia might be the lowest.) ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/9 "2014-07-30T22:10:20Z")
Here are a few anecdotes that may or may not help. When I lived in Japan, I lost 1kg per month for the first six months until my weight stabilised. When I returned to Ireland, I regained all the weight within a few months. When Japanese colleagues were posted overseas (especially to the US), they became noticeably fatter within 6 to 12 months. Based on these and similar observations, I believe lifestyle factors are key. Living in a Japanese city, you typically walk, cycle or take public transport rather than driving. There isn’t much opportunity for snacking during the working day. Most meals contain rice, which is very filling. Canned coffee is a very popular beverage from vending machines, and is less calorific than sugary drinks. Children walk or cycle to school from an early age. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/10 "2014-07-31T04:02:47Z")
Those Sumo guys fuck up the math. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/11 "2014-07-31T04:49:57Z")
Since I believe the most important points have already been raised (essentially, we eat less, and better quality food in Japan), I’ll just make the obligatory nitpicks. > [@cookiecuttercc](#): > > ps, a lot of sumo nowadays are non-Japanese (particularly many Polynesians) Actually, it’s 28 Mongolians, 1 American, 1 Brazilian, 3 Chinese, 2 Russians, 2 Georgians, 1 Czech, 1 Bulgarian, 1 Kazakh, 1 Hungarian and 1 Egyptian. The era of Hawaiian and Samoan wrestlers is over. > [@iljitsch](#): > > I guess rice, whale and seaweed are less palatable than whatever it is we tend to eat in Europe these days. Not sure if serious, but just in case, whale hasn’t been a staple since the 60s. The amount of whale meat eaten here is so negligible it doesn’t even register in the statistics. Chicken is the most popular meat, followed by pork. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/12 "2014-07-31T04:57:19Z")
It may upset the low carb and Paleo folk but here is [the typical old school Japanese diet](http://www.kikkoman.com/foodforum/thejapanesetable/29.shtml): > [@](#): > > Rice, including rice mixed with barley or cereal grains, was generally the main dish, particularly in daily fare, and in some eras people drew more than 80 percent of their calories from rice. … Data from the 1980 National Nutrition Survey in Japan indicates that the average intake of calories was 15 percent for proteins, 24 percent for fats and 61 percent for carbohydrates. … Unfortunately obesity, while still relatively low compared to other developed countries, is [still](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14981212) [increasing](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18957932) [there](http://www.bu.edu/themovement/2011/05/29/the-fats-on-fire/) > [@](#): > > The prevalence of obese boys and girls increased from 6.1% and 7.1%, respectively, in the time-period 1976 to 1980, to 11.1% and 10.2% in 1996 to 2000. The increasing trend was most evident in 9- to 11-year-old children of both sexes living in small towns … > [@](#): > > A longitudinal analysis at the individual level showed that the prevalences of overweight and obesity increased among middle-aged Japanese participants during the follow-up period. Among men, an increasing prevalence of obesity was observed among the younger generations. > [@](#): > > The leading explanation for this increase is attributed to changes in diet and physical exercise. It has been noted that increased economic prosperity leads to a nutrition transition of a diet high in total fat, cholesterol, sugar, and other refined carbohydrates and low in polyunsaturated fatty acids and fiber, which combined with decreased dependence on manual labor force resulting in an increasingly sedentary lifestyle increases the prevalence of obesity and its associated diseases. This trend has been especially true for Japan. Since WWII, increased prosperity has been accompanied by increased energy intake. Daily per capita consumption of animal products increased by 257g, daily per capita total fat consumption increased 341%, and the proportion of energy from fat increased from 8.7% to 24.8%[iv]. Larger household incomes meant access to a more varied diet. Consumption of rice in the daily diet decreased being replaced by bread, meat, and dairy products. Use of electronic appliances and industrially prepared food drastically reduced intake of fresh food at home. Finally, the popularity of the American lifestyle led to hamburgers, French fries, milkshakes and donuts permeating the daily diet, a change further exacerbated by the introduction of the American fast food industry in the 1970’s[v]. Though Japanese diet still includes much more marine fish containing omega-3 fatty acids thought to protect against coronary heart disease, and much less food high in saturated fat than U.S., the adoption of a more ‘western diet’ is resulting in similar health issues. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/13 "2014-07-31T05:07:10Z")
Oh! It also should be noted that the BMI definition of overweight and obesity in this case [may be missing part of the story.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16611393) > [@](#): > > the Japanese men were estimated to have an equivalent amount of body fat to the Australian men at BMI values that were about 1.5 units lower than those of the Australians (23.5 kg/m2 and 28.2 kg/m2, respectively). It was concluded that Japanese men have greater body fat deposition than Australian-Caucasians at the same BMI value. Japanese men may therefore require lower BMI cut-off points to identify obese individuals compared with Australian-Caucasian men. Less fat-free mass and more central obesity at the same BMI on a population wide basis. And [more diabetes and cardiovascular risk at lower BMI cut-offs.](http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/bmi_asia_strategies.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/14 "2014-07-31T05:08:00Z")
The Japanese also smoke almost twice as much per capita as Americans (roughly 1800 cigarettes/year vs 1000), and nicotine is of course an appetite suppressant. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Bow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@Jim\_Bow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Bow)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/15 "2014-07-31T05:08:59Z")
Hang out in Shinjuku when the bars are closing. You’ll see plenty of fat drunk slobs. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/16 "2014-07-31T05:33:18Z")
Living in china right now (ETA: which compares similarly to the West as Japan on this). Yeah I’d say lifestyle factors are very important; they don’t have the huge portion sizes as the US, eat less dairy and more fish and vegetables (though the vegetables are usually cooked to buggery). But there’s no doubt in my mind that there are physiological differences. Just as we can say on average chinese people are shorter than, say, americans, so I think we can say they are slimmer. And in terms of appearance, the fat distributes differently too IME. A western man who gets a little overweight may show it on his abdomen, face and butt. Chinese guys often just pad out everywhere, and you hardly notice if someone’s limbs are slightly thicker than average. > [@hibernicus](#): > > Most meals contain rice, which is very filling. As in china. So yet more anomalies for “carbs are bad”. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/17 "2014-07-31T06:31:07Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > 1. The Brits shouldn’t be pointing at the bellies of tourists, as they themselves are the most overweight nation in Europe (ignoring Iceland and Malta) As the OP probably didn’t feel the need to point out, most tourists in the UK are British enjoying a staycation. Nowhere did the OP imply that Brits are svelt. We are quite aware of our obesity epidemic, thank you. > [@iljitsch](#): > > 1. Exercise is rather questionable as a weight loss method Are you seriously suggesting that a sedentary lifestyle doesn’t contribute to weight gain? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/18 "2014-07-31T06:42:01Z")
I took him to be unartfully restating the idea that fitness happens at the gym and weight loss at the dinner table. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/19 "2014-07-31T07:20:14Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > Not sure if serious, but just in case, whale hasn’t been a staple since the 60s. The amount of whale meat eaten here is so negligible it doesn’t even register in the statistics. That just proves my point. 🙂 Although Japan keeps hunting whales, nobody wants to buy the meat. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447/20 "2014-07-31T07:27:54Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Are you seriously suggesting that a sedentary lifestyle doesn’t contribute to weight gain? Sure, sitting on the couch is a factor in _gaining_ weight. That doesn’t mean that going to the gym will do much to _lose_ that weight. The other day I read about a study that people actually get more exercise these days than in the 1970s before the obesity epidemic got started… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-fat-japanese/694447.md?page=2)