# Why are there no miniature Labrador Retrievers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 5, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842 "2018-04-05T01:55:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/1 "2018-04-05T01:55:03Z")
I’ve had two Labs in the past and they are great dogs. Loyal, loving, short hair, everything good in a dog. But they are usually 65 to 90 pounds in weight. My wife and I are aging, mid 70’s, and at some point we may need to move to senior housing. Many of these places allow dogs, but often have a weight/size limit. In my mind a Lab weighing about 25 pounds would be a great companion animal. There are mini poodles, aussie shepards, greyhounds, etc. Why no mini Labs? GaryM ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/2 "2018-04-05T01:58:33Z")
I hear ya (tho I’m more of a fan of goldens). We have repeatedly intentionally gotten goldens below the standard for showing. Seriously considering a mini golden/labradoodle when our 9.5 yr old shuffles off this mortal coil… But I’m a coupla decades younger than you, so I may have a couple more goldens in me before I have to settle. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/3 "2018-04-05T02:39:21Z")
I like the mini aussie, but a lab is a lot lower maintenance so far as brushing etc. There are labs that exhibit dwarfism, but they are not really miniatures. Usually just short legged. GaryM ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/4 "2018-04-05T02:51:12Z")
I can think of no reason why the same approaches that long ago created Italian Greyhounds from Greyhounds and created the Miniature American Shepherd (a.k.a Minnie Aussie) from the Australian Shepherd could not be applied to create small Labradors. Has not most likely mainly because the demand for regular size is ample and the demand for smaller purebred not so big or reliable as to warrant the investment in a breeding program over many generations. OTOH there are small Labradoodles ([examples](https://minidoodledogs.com/product/mini-labradoodle-puppies/)) that have required a less intensive breeding program aimed at the portion of the market with your wish list. And of course they aint cheap. (Former Greyhounds and Whippets owner now lover of my 7 month old Minnie American.) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/5 "2018-04-05T03:35:30Z")
Holy moly those doodle-dogs are cute. They are pricey for was essentially a mutt-mixed breed, though. It’s a racket I tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/6 "2018-04-05T04:01:16Z")
Easy. Get a puppy and start him on a 2-pack a day habit. That should stunt his growth! (Easy folks. Just a joke.) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/7 "2018-04-05T04:05:17Z")
Well, I laughed. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/8 "2018-04-05T11:04:51Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Easy. Get a puppy and start him on a 2-pack a day habit. That should stunt his growth! > > (Easy folks. Just a joke.) Actually, it sorta happens. I knew a woman who bred/showed toy poodles. She monitored their early growth meticulously. If a show quality puppy was growing “too fast” she would begin tube feeding it alcohol as a way of slowing its growth. I don’t know if it worked, but she had success in the show ring. ---
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/9 "2018-04-05T11:26:24Z")
If you are looking for a small retriever, check out the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. Super cute and fun dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/10 "2018-04-05T12:46:28Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > There are labs that exhibit dwarfism, but they are not really miniatures. Usually just short legged. > > GaryM Our current golden is about 60#, and somewhat short-legged. We still joke about one day that the family was walking thru a park/art show w/ the dog, and some guy coming towards us said, out of the blue, “He’s kinda stumpy, isn’t he?” And just walked past. :smack: Stumpy remains one of the many nicknames we have for the beast. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/11 "2018-04-05T13:05:34Z")
We have a Lab-Corgi mix (sometimes called a “corgidor,” a name I find annoyingly cutesy) named Peanut. He’s only about 25 pounds, and according to the vet is not likely to get any bigger. Very cute doggie. Well-behaved, and very bright. He’s active and full of energy, and needs lots of exercise every day. Of course, that’s true of Labs in general. Although, oddly for a retriever, he doesn’t really like to fetch. He also has a bit of hip dysplasia, which I understand such hybrids are prone to, so we have to be careful not to let him jump from too high a place. But he loves to play, is always happy to see us, and is, of course, the best doggie in the world. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/12 "2018-04-05T15:09:08Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Actually, it sorta happens. I knew a woman who bred/showed toy poodles. She monitored their early growth meticulously. If a show quality puppy was growing “too fast” she would begin tube feeding it alcohol as a way of slowing its growth. I don’t know if it worked, but she had success in the show ring. But that defeats the whole purpose in having a “dog show” – [conformance trial](http://www.akc.org/sports/conformation/) to use the formal term. > [@AKC](#): > > While a dog show may look like a beauty pageant, it’s not. Dogs are not being compared to each other; they’re being measured by how closely they conform to the standard of their particular breed. Why? Because the closer a dog’s appearance is to the breed’s standard, the better that dog’s ability will be to produce puppies that meet the standard. In short, you’re looking for a dog who can sire or throw puppies that come close to the breed standard, not be sculpted into one. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/13 "2018-04-05T15:12:50Z")
I like Corgi dogs too. Damn cute fellows for sure. For some reason my wife does not care for them though. Six of our 8 dogs have been rescues, so it’s likely that the next one will be also. GaryM ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/14 "2018-04-05T17:12:56Z")
No point in developing tiny retrievers until the miniature duck program shows results. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/15 "2018-04-05T18:17:27Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > No point in developing tiny retrievers until the miniature duck program shows results. We already have squash balls that would fit the tennis ball roll for tiny retrievers, so we’re part way there. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/16 "2018-04-05T18:47:27Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Our current golden is about 60#, and somewhat short-legged. We still joke about one day that the family was walking thru a park/art show w/ the dog, and some guy coming towards us said, out of the blue, “He’s kinda stumpy, isn’t he?” And just walked past. :smack: > > Stumpy remains one of the many nicknames we have for the beast. I have a Chocolate who’s a bit runty. Short legs and thick body, not lean like some Labs. I was walking him and stopped to talk to a neighbor, and he said he was “stout.” ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/17 "2018-04-05T19:20:42Z")
I think we need a new breed: The American Apartment Dog. Dog should be: 25 pounds or so. Not miniature, but small enough you can pick it up easy. Normal shaped face with a nose so it can eat and breathe. Normal legs so it can walk. Friendly and people-focused, like a lab. Lazy as hell, doesn’t mind hanging out all day by itself. Hypoallergenic, so a coat like a poodle. Gigantic bladder so it can hold its urine. Coat and conformation irrelevant. Who cares what it looks like? Snuggly-wuggly and adorable. What makes it so CUTE? ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/18 "2018-04-05T19:54:36Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I can think of no reason why the same approaches that long ago created Italian Greyhounds from Greyhounds and created the Miniature American Shepherd (a.k.a Minnie Aussie) from the Australian Shepherd could not be applied to create small Labradors. Has not most likely mainly because the demand for regular size is ample and the demand for smaller purebred not so big or reliable as to warrant the investment in a breeding program over many generations. OTOH there are small Labradoodles ([examples](https://minidoodledogs.com/product/mini-labradoodle-puppies/)) that have required a less intensive breeding program aimed at the portion of the market with your wish list. And of course they aint cheap. I think the question is, if you breed “small Labradoodles” with each other, do you get more small Labradoodles as a result? “The version I heard was,” the main reason Labradoodle isn’t an AKC breed is, most breeders won’t breed them to each other, but deal primarily with pure Lab-pure Poodle crosses, “because if you breed Labradoodles together, you end up putting the things you tried to breed out in the first place back in.” ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/19 "2018-04-05T20:23:41Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I think we need a new breed: The American Apartment Dog. > > Dog should be: > > 25 pounds or so. Not miniature, but small enough you can pick it up easy. > Normal shaped face with a nose so it can eat and breathe. > Normal legs so it can walk. > Friendly and people-focused, like a lab. > Lazy as hell, doesn’t mind hanging out all day by itself. > Hypoallergenic, so a coat like a poodle. > Gigantic bladder so it can hold its urine. > Coat and conformation irrelevant. Who cares what it looks like? > Snuggly-wuggly and adorable. What makes it so CUTE? If you start a Kickstarter for this breeding program, I’ll kick in twenty bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842/20 "2018-04-05T20:37:06Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > I think the question is, if you breed “small Labradoodles” with each other, do you get more small Labradoodles as a result? “The version I heard was,” the main reason Labradoodle isn’t an AKC breed is, most breeders won’t breed them to each other, but deal primarily with pure Lab-pure Poodle crosses, “because if you breed Labradoodles together, you end up putting the things you tried to breed out in the first place back in.” Actually, we were at a house where they had 2 small labradoodles. Really nifty dogs. The LARGER was maybe 30-35#. After, I did a little research on-line, and there were several breeders who bred all manner of crosses. I didn’t get too into it (cause my current guy ain’t dead yet!). [Here’s](http://www.rosewoodlabradoodles.com/Our_Girls.html) just 1, where they seem to breed doodleXdoodle. I suspect w/ some of the minis, they might use toy poodles to keep the size down. They seem to call them “Austrailian” labradoodles for some reason - kinda like some golden breeders describe “English creme.” Lots of BS (as w/ pretty much any breeder!) and the prices are steep. And, of course, I’m not vouching for the breed or any breeder. Re: the price, tho, I remember a long time back, when i had a dog I got for free, and I was talking to a guy who paid a couple grand for his dog. I called that outrageous. His response was that he could afford to pay what he wanted to get exactly the dog he wanted, and over the life of a dog, the initial cost was pretty insignificant. Just one opinion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-miniature-labrador-retrievers/811842.md?page=2)