# Why are there no more divine events? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266 "2013-03-18T15:23:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/21 "2013-03-18T17:00:25Z")
What about Fatima, Lourdes and Our Lady of Guadalupe? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/22 "2013-03-18T17:09:48Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > When a person with cancer goes into remission for no apparent reason it is called spontaneous remission. This label dampens the miracle. Slight hijack, but I’d just like to focus on this for a minute because it is a common misconception. The idea people have is that once someone has an aggressive cancer that it will inevitably spread uncontrolled through the body. And if the cancer should go into remission, well, that’s a real WTF moment for doctors everywhere. In reality, a tumour is a very complex phenomenon and there are many factors that are helping, hindering, or just changing the condition of a tumour at any time. e.g. a tumour might grow so aggressively that new blood vessels cannot be formed quickly enough and it smothers itself. Or it might expand into neighbouring tissue and at that point become more obvious to the immune system. We _expect_ some percentage of cancers to go into spontaneous remission. ETA: That’s not to claim we completely understand the situation yet. But there’s no need to invoke divine intervention. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/23 "2013-03-18T17:14:59Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Because the original events never happened as recorded. > [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Irrelevant to the question at hand. How so? Are you only looking for answers in the context of the major religions being true? You did not make that clear, because in reality, **runner pat** ’s answer is indeed the answer to your question. The reason they don’t happen now is because they simply don’t happen, and never did. Please elaborate on which divine events and/or religions are assumed to be true in the context of this question. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/24 "2013-03-18T17:16:08Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > ETA: That’s not to claim we completely understand the situation yet. But there’s no need to invoke divine intervention. But that god of the gaps has to live somewhere! He’s not crashing on my couch, that’s for damn sure… ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/25 "2013-03-18T17:23:46Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Do Roman Catholic saints (and the miracles that must be ascribed to them to make them saints) count? There are certainly many who’ve been canonized within the past hundred years, IIRC. I think they should, but they have that whole waiting period thing that makes it less likely that evidence exposing them as obvious fakes will still be easily at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/26 "2013-03-18T17:26:29Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > How so? Are you only looking for answers in the context of the major religions being true? You did not make that clear, because in reality, **runner pat** ’s answer is indeed the answer to your question. The reason they don’t happen now is because they simply don’t happen, and never did. > > Please elaborate on which divine events and/or religions are assumed to be true in the context of this question. So you disagree with post 13? Why does the OP’s question rest on the assumption that the miracles of the past did happen and were miracles? Why isn’t it about human/religious interpretation of past and current events? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/27 "2013-03-18T17:31:48Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > ETA: That’s not to claim we completely understand the situation yet. But there’s no need to invoke divine intervention. Not to mention the odd logic of singing hosannas whenever the merciful Lord randomly sees fit to momentarily press “pause” on the horrifying, debilitating disease He created and allowed to afflict His beloved creation in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/28 "2013-03-18T17:44:00Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So you disagree with post 13? Nope. > [@Leaper](#): > > Why does the OP’s question rest on the assumption that the miracles of the past did happen and were miracles? Why isn’t it about human/religious interpretation of past and current events? You’ll have to ask the OP why his question is or is not about the things mention. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/29 "2013-03-18T17:50:21Z")
I was at a St Patricks Day part this past weekend. It was divine! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/30 "2013-03-18T18:04:05Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I was at a St Patricks Day part this past weekend. It was divine! The Miracle of the Green Beer! It is green when you receive it, it is green when you partake of it, and it is green when you return it-truly a sign of God’s eternal nature, I tells ya! ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/31 "2013-03-18T18:53:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Channeled by atheists”?[I don’t think so.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Course_in_Miracles) Try reading “Journey Without Distance: The Story Behind a Course in Miracles” It has the whole story of the book. There you will find all the answers to your questions. It is a special read and the ACIM book is life changing. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/32 "2013-03-18T18:57:10Z")
mormonism is an extension of Christianity that claims divine intervention. I think people who claim want you are saying form splinter faiths. but hasn’t that always been the case? Christianity is a splinter of judaism based on theories of divinity and miracles. protestantism is a break off of catholicism. Islam broke cultural traditions. sikhism broke off of hinduism and Islam. if someone claims divine intervention or prophecy, usually those people start their own faith which is persecuted until it becomes powerful. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/33 "2013-03-18T19:07:40Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Try reading > “Journey Without Distance: The Story Behind a Course in Miracles” > It has the whole story of the book. There you will find all the answers to > your questions. It is a special read and the ACIM book is life changing. I did check, the testimony is that the author claims that she had religious training but reported that she considered herself to be involved in a branch of science that was atheistic in nature, not really OK IMHO to depend on just what she reports, particularly when hearing voices in your head is a sign that one should seek mental help, not to write a book. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/34 "2013-03-18T19:12:36Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Nope. So you agree with post 13 that the OP’s question does not assume that miracles are true/actually happened? > [@](#): > > You’ll have to ask the OP why his question is or is not about the things mention. And now I’m completely confused. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/35 "2013-03-18T19:21:22Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Why? Because we have a better understanding of the world, nature, and the universe now? For a couple of reasons. First, our society makes the distinction. Back then it was perfectly acceptable to include tall stories to sell the product. Not just in religion, but in history also. Second, writers of things usually are expected to claim authorship. Back then it was very common for writers to use the name of a dead famous person - just like in the Gospels. If your name is associated, we can tell when it was written. And since the invention of publishing books claiming miracles at location X written far away in location Y are more likely to reach location X where the people will say, hell no. And we are much better at the critical analysis of writing and physical evidence. The UFO nuts like Adamski claimed secular miracles, but didn’t get very far in the current climate of skepticism. True believers will always ignore the evidence and believe in a divine event (hi there Mormons) but it is much less likely to be uncritically accepted today. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/36 "2013-03-18T19:29:20Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Of course, the counterexample to my claim is the Latter Day Saints. Oh yeah, and then there’s that little splinter group known as Muslims. > > Never mind! Islam was founded long enough ago that the same conditions applied. As for LDS, the people living in New York with Joseph Smith seemed notably unimpressed with his miracles. They seemed more miraculous in Illinois. As for today, no one is going to believe Jesus came back without about 50 YouTube videos showing it. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/37 "2013-03-18T19:46:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I did check, the testimony is that the author claims that she had religious training but reported that she considered herself to be involved in a branch of science that was atheistic in nature, not really OK IMHO to depend on just what she reports, particularly when hearing voices in your head is a sign that one should seek mental help, not to write a book. But the voice said “prepare to take dictation” which her partner finally did. It is a profound book. One should read the “Teachers Manual” first then the “Daily Lessons” before trying the main body of the book. It is difficult reading but very rewarding. Years ago “Psychology Today” magazine ran a survey finding that about 5% of those responding hear voices in their head. Most of the voices were beneficial and helped those who heard them. I heard voices during my NDE but now receive “impressions” that help me a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/38 "2013-03-18T19:51:04Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > But the voice said “prepare to take dictation” which her partner finally did. It is a profound book. One should read the “Teachers Manual” first then the “Daily Lessons” before trying the main body of the book. It is difficult reading but very rewarding. > > Years ago “Psychology Today” magazine ran a survey finding that about 5% of those responding hear voices in their head. Most of the voices were beneficial and helped those who heard them. I heard voices during my NDE but now receive “impressions” that help me a lot. 1. I’d like a cite for that article, please. 2. You didn’t have an NDE-you had a bad dream. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/39 "2013-03-18T19:57:13Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So you agree with post 13 that the OP’s question does not assume that miracles are true/actually happened? > [@Leaper](#): > > And now I’m completely confused. Sorry, I think I was still asleep or something when I made my previous posts. Kindly ignore them. Regarding your post 13, I agree it could be what the OP meant. But I didn’t consider that before because it seems just too obvious to ask. Of course we don’t blame hurricanes and whatnot on god smiting us for allowing gay marriage, because a significant majority of the country realizes it’s caused by low pressure and high temperatures, and not a couple guys touching dongs. Regarding non-catastrophe divine events such as people rising from the dead, well that shit _never_ happened, and continues to not happen. Pretty much what **runner pat** said, but was dismissed as irrelevant for reasons I do not understand. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266/40 "2013-03-18T20:06:05Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > But the voice said “prepare to take dictation” which her partner finally did. And that was nonsense. > [@lekatt](#): > > It is a profound book. One should read the “Teachers Manual” first then the “Daily Lessons” before trying the main body of the book. It is difficult reading but very rewarding. Not likely. Based on what it should had been done. > [@lekatt](#): > > Years ago “Psychology Today” magazine ran a survey finding that about 5% of those responding hear voices in their head. Most of the voices were beneficial and helped those who heard them. I heard voices during my NDE but now receive “impressions” that help me a lot. And here is why it not likely to be useful, most of the ones who find it beneficial do so because they are aware that a condition like that is not bad when one understands the limitations; particularly, that it comes from their heads. No need to assume any outside interventions as the source of those voices. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-more-divine-events/653266.md?page=3)