# Why are there no non-human primates/monkeys in North America? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 1, 2014, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260 "2014-11-01T12:31:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ArztWolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@ArztWolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArztWolf)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/1 "2014-11-01T12:31:12Z")
Anyone know why? Several of the southern states, plus Hawaii, have tropical climates that would be perfect for them. I’m surprised none came over during the [Great American Interchange](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Interchange). ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/2 "2014-11-01T12:57:39Z")
Are there climates/ecologies _between_ North & South America, that would support them? Or large desert areas? Question largely answered. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/3 "2014-11-01T13:10:00Z")
I suggest a move to GQ. All I have is joke answers. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/4 "2014-11-01T14:23:53Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, **ArztWolf**. Fact-based questions like this go in our General Questions forum, so I’ve moved the thread there for you. Enjoy your stay! **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/5 "2014-11-01T14:35:03Z")
They don’t like North America because they get the funniest looks from everyone they meet. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/6 "2014-11-01T14:39:32Z")
From [_Popular Science_](http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/fyi-why-are-there-no-native-monkeys-america): > [@](#): > > I spoke to Dr. John Flynn, a paleontologist and expert on mammalian evolution at the American Museum of Natural History, to find out why the US is stuck with lame squirrels and pigeons and stuff rather than cool monkeys. “In terms of modern primates, that’s a true observation,” he said. “But 50 million years ago, there were primates here.” It turns out there are lots of reasons why the ancient primates that inhabited what is now the United States–and even Canada!–no longer call those areas home. > > \ > > Then the planet began to cool, and cool quickly. Forests died out. The poles covered with ice. Many of the flora and fauna that had populated the planet during the Eocene just couldn’t survive in the new, colder world. This event is called the Grande Coupure–occurring about 33.9 million years ago, it was a mass extinction of animals, in which most of the world’s creatures (aside from a precious few, like the Virginia opossum and the dormouse) were unable to adapt to the new climate and perished. It hit the primate family especially hard. In the New World, the primate population shrunk significantly. Any primate living in, say, the Great Lakes region simply went extinct, unable to cope with the new Wisconsin winters. > > In South America, the primates contracted to the region around the equator. But even the hottest, southernmost parts of North America–then still detached from South America–were too chilly or otherwise inhospitable for the North American Primates. The few places where they maybe could have survived, like the Florida Keys and the islands of the Caribbean, were inaccessible. Sure, monkeys could have survived in Aruba, if they had arrived at just the right time. But the chances of getting there on some kind of float, the way primates had come over from Africa so many millions of years before, were slim, and the Earth was cooling rapidly. There are some primate fossils from the Caribbean; “Some monkeys have gotten to some of the Caribbean islands and gone extinct,” says Dr. Flynn. Another collection of random events and they might have survived, but not this time. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/7 "2014-11-01T14:50:24Z")
ArztWolf writes: \> . . . Hawaii . . . Hawaii has no native land animals. By native, I mean ones that arrived before the Polynesians did (sometime after 500 A.D.). There’s no way that they could have reached the islands without human help. This (not particularly reliable) webpage lists some native animals of Hawaii: > **[Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](https://www.yahoo.com/)** > > Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo! ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/8 "2014-11-01T15:23:43Z")
The critically endangered Geoffroy’s Spider Monkey occurs as far north as the Mexican state of Tamaulipas, which at its northern edge, borders on the USA. That is generally considered to be North America. There is a lengthy article which, coincidentally, has almost exactly the same title as this thread: > **[FYI: Why Are There No Native Monkeys In North America?](https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/fyi-why-are-there-no-native-monkeys-america/)** > > If only they had developed monkey boats. Tiny little monkey boats! Oh man I wish they had monkey boats. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/9 "2014-11-01T15:29:47Z")
What is generally referred to as “Central America” is actually part of North America. Plenty of monkeys in Central America. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/10 "2014-11-01T15:30:52Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Are there climates/ecologies _between_ North & South America, that would support them? > Or large desert areas? > Question largely answered. There are monkeys that live in Japan, which has a climate considerably colder than much of North America. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/11 "2014-11-01T17:15:22Z")
> [@ArztWolf](#): > > Anyone know why? > > Several of the southern states, plus Hawaii, have tropical climates that would be perfect for them. I’m surprised none came over during the [Great American Interchange](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Interchange). > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > From [_Popular Science_](http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/fyi-why-are-there-no-native-monkeys-america): That article is pretty garbled and doesn’t really get the time lines right. At the beginning of the Age of Mammals in the Paleocene, 65 million years ago, North and South America were widely separated. North America was intermittently connected to Asia and Europe. The first true primates are known from around the beginning of the Eocene about 55 million years ago. They were prosimians, resembling modern tarsiers, bushbabies, and lemurs. During the Eocene they are known from North America, Asia, Europe, and Africa. These primates became extinct in North America around the end of Eocene 35 million years ago, but they survived in the Old World. Monkeys arose in the Old World around the start of the Oligocene around 35 million years ago. The first monkeys appeared in South America later in the Oligocene, about 30 million years ago. Remarkably, they seem to have come from Africa by rafting on floating vegetation. Certain groups of rodents seem to have come to South America the same way about this time. Unlike their Old World counterparts, the New World Monkey seem to have always been pretty much confined to tropical forest. They evolved no terrestrial forms like baboons, and don’t extend much or at all into temperate areas like some Old World Monkeys do. Once the Panama land bridge closed between 3 and 4 million years ago, these South American monkeys participated in the Great American Biotic Interchange like many other groups. It just so happens that, because they are confined to tropical forests, they never made it past southern Mexico. This is similar to many other groups of South American mammals, birds, plants, and others. > [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Hawaii has no native land animals. You no doubt meant mammals. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/12 "2014-11-01T17:24:11Z")
I don’t know how accurate this is, but[here’s](http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2007952597/2030518476/gr1.jpg) a distribution map. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/13 "2014-11-01T17:36:03Z")
Yes, I should have said “mammals.” ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/14 "2014-11-01T17:39:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There are monkeys that live in Japan, which has a climate considerably colder than much of North America. I’ve seen Grey Langur monkeys at 6,000 feet in the Himalays – hey range as high as 13,000 feet. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/15 "2014-11-01T17:57:03Z")
> [@susan](#): > > I don’t know how accurate this is, but[here’s](http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2007952597/2030518476/gr1.jpg) a distribution map. It’s reasonably accurate. From the map, you can see that Old World Monkeys range into temperate areas in Japan and northern and southern Africa, while New World Monkeys are entirely confined to the tropics. By way of a generality, during the Great Biotic Interchange temperate-adapted mammals from North America did well in South America, while very few South American mammals did well in temperate North America. Today the only ones of the latter that survive are the Virginia Opossum, Nine-banded Armadillo, and North American Porcupine. Mammals of South American origin are mainly confined to the tropical areas of North America/Central America. This may be due to the relative amounts of land in each zone in each continent, North America having most of its area in the temperate zone, and most of South America being tropical. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/16 "2014-11-01T21:40:11Z")
[There’s wild monkeys in Florida](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_rhesus_macaque). Not that they’re really SUPPOSED to be there, but they seem to get along just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/17 "2014-11-02T00:08:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There are monkeys that live in Japan, which has a climate considerably colder than much of North America. I didn’t say colder–more arid, is the issue. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/18 "2014-11-02T03:48:39Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > [There’s wild monkeys in Florida](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_rhesus_macaque). > > Not that they’re really SUPPOSED to be there, but they seem to get along just fine. South Carolina has monkeys, too. [Morgan Island.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Island,_South_Carolina) It’s home to a colony of free-ranging rhesus monkeys used in research that was transferred from Puerto Rico in 1979. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/19 "2014-11-02T05:53:39Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Are there climates/ecologies _between_ North & South America, that would support them?. I have seen monkeys in the wild in Costa Rica, so I would say yes. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260/20 "2014-11-02T15:00:49Z")
The Wikipedia article on [The Great American Interchange](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Interchange) adds more concerning what **Colibri** posted. The section on the lopsided-ness of the interchange is especially interesting. Central America is a bottleneck. If a species can reach and survive there, it’s _much_ easier to spread south than north due to similarity of climate. There had been some [primates in the Caribbean](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammals_of_the_Caribbean#Primates) but they are all extinct except for some islands near South America and introduced species. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-non-human-primates-monkeys-in-north-america/703260.md?page=2)