# Why are there no snakes now in Ireland? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 2, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741 "2009-07-02T20:58:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/21 "2009-07-03T13:35:12Z")
> [@Dahu](#): > > Yep. We have adders, grass snakes, and smooth snakes. We also have the Slow Worm which, although resembling a snake, is actually a limbless lizard ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@Brainiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/22 "2009-07-03T16:25:31Z")
So are there snakes in Iceland and Greenland? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/23 "2009-07-03T17:19:28Z")
> [@Brainiac](#): > > So are there snakes in Iceland and Greenland? Nope. Iceland, Greenland, New Zealand and Antarctica are snakeless, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/24 "2009-07-03T17:26:14Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > I think **Claire** meant ‘before snakes had made it as far north as the British Isles in general’, rather than meaning to suggest Ireland was to the north of Great Britain… OK, I can read it that way. **jjimm** I know but I was trying to underline the fact that Wales does exist. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/25 "2009-07-03T18:19:18Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > This is just a WAG but a very small number of introduced or escaped snakes can’t establish a viable breeding population. Once the introduced snakes die, that is the end of the line for their lineage. > > Hawaii has a very trivial snake population as well and it seems to be a much more suitable habitat for them. Which raises still more questions. As the OP points out, in some places invasive snakes did establish themselves, and are wrecking havoc on the local fauna. ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/26 "2009-07-03T21:58:39Z")
> [@Cat\_Jones](#): > > I thought Ireland was cut off by changes in sea levels (as Britain was from continental Europe) rather than continental drift and changes in position ? Yes, at the end of the last ice age when the glaciers melted and sea levels rose. Snakes, spreading north as the climate improved, made it across the English Channel land bridge, but by the time they reached the Irish Sea land bridge it wasn’t there any more. So the snakes never reached Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/27 "2009-07-04T02:34:32Z")
Rumor has it that Betty Smith’s followup book was to be titled _[A Snake Lives in Ireland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Tree_Grows_in_Brooklyn_(novel))_. No, it’s not true. There are snakes [at the zoo](http://www.indublin.ie/Tourism/Attractions/Dublin_Zoo.aspx), one might pedantically note. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/28 "2009-07-04T02:36:12Z")
_There are no snakes in Ireland And the streets are paved with cheese…_ (Forgive me, Don Bluth!) ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/29 "2009-07-04T04:00:24Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > We also have the Slow Worm which, although resembling a snake, is actually a limbless lizard OK, I’ll bite, what’s the difference? :eek: And does it talk? Seriously though, I haven’t noticed any rodents in Ireland (Nothern Ireland, actually). Even our Dairy barn doesn’t show the sign of any. I’m not claiming there are none, but I wonder if the population is low enough that a snake population would just starve. . . As for climate, there are thriving palm trees growing in our graveyard, so I don’t think it’s the cold doing them in. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/30 "2009-07-04T04:50:11Z")
How are rodents kept in check in a place without snakes? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/31 "2009-07-04T05:10:48Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > How are rodents kept in check in a place without snakes? Cats, dogs, owls, hawks, …there’s no shortage of small-game predators in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/32 "2009-07-04T05:31:54Z")
What steps does Ireland take to keep them out? You’d figure by now someone would just dump a bunch and they’d run amok ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/33 "2009-07-04T06:02:44Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > How are rodents kept in check in a place without snakes? Some places without snakes are without rodents either. New Zealand lacked either until the Polynesians introduced rats, but that population was largely supplanted by those brought over by later by Europeans. The effect on the indigenous fauna was catastrophic, as bird species with no natural ground predators were faced with an onslaught. We’re perhaps fortunate that no-one tried to bring in snakes to control the rats: stoats and weasels were brought over in an attempt to control the depredations of the rat and rabbit populations, however the predators found it easier to eat - yup, the birds. And the lizards, and the wetas. With the ecological damage caused by the rats, the rabbits, the possums, the hedgehogs and the cats and the dogs, it’s a surprise there are any indigenous species left. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/34 "2009-07-04T06:20:27Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > How are rodents kept in check in a place without snakes? Fox (+ owls, hawks, cats etc…) That’s interesting **TruCelt** , I’ve seen a fair amount of mice and voles down in County Tipp. [This site](http://www.culturenorthernireland.org/article.aspx?art_id=536) says > [@](#): > > and rodent species, including the red and grey squirrel, the field mouse, the house mouse and the black and brown rat. Other common small mammals are the brown hare, the Irish hare and the rabbit, It also backs up what **Alive at both ends** said about land bridges > [@](#): > > Due to its isolation at the end of the last Ice Age, Northern Ireland, like the rest of the island of Ireland, has a lower biodiversity, that is a smaller range of living plants and animals, than the rest of Europe. Thinking of Hawaii & New Zealand the BBC had a series on the [Pacific](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pacific_(TV_series)) recently which went some way to explaining how geographic isolation coupled with volcanic island formation had limited the range of native species. > [@](#): > > **Markxxx** What steps does Ireland take to keep them out? You’d figure by now someone would just dump a bunch and they’d run amok Why ?? Introduction of non-native fauna has usually been a) by accident or b) for commercial gain. As mentioned earlier in the thread Ireland’s climate is not really conducive to a successful reptilian way of life. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/35 "2009-07-04T06:43:59Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > OK, I’ll bite, what’s the difference? > > :eek: And does it talk? > > . Well on the one hand you have snakes in the true sense of the word, on the other you have limbless lizards. And yes they can not only talk but are well known for singing arias from Madam Butterfly…in Klingon ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/36 "2009-07-05T21:49:48Z")
> [@Cat\_Jones](#): > > Actually the geology and hence climate of the island of Britain\* is usually divided into 2 zones - lowland and highland. Geology, yes, but I’ve never heard of ‘two climate zones’. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/37 "2009-07-05T21:51:50Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > This is just a WAG but a very small number of introduced or escaped snakes can’t establish a viable breeding population. Once the introduced snakes die, that is the end of the line for their lineage. > > Hawaii has a very trivial snake population as well and it seems to be a much more suitable habitat for them. So you might have the occasional escaped adder, but they can’t multiply? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/38 "2009-07-05T22:07:50Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > OK, I’ll bite, what’s the difference? > > :eek: And does it talk? > > Seriously though, I haven’t noticed any rodents in Ireland (Nothern Ireland, actually). Even our Dairy barn doesn’t show the sign of any. I’m not claiming there are none, but I wonder if the population is low enough that a snake population would just starve. . . > > As for climate, there are thriving palm trees growing in our graveyard, so I don’t think it’s the cold doing them in. [Limbless lizards](http://www.dcpaleo.org/Leisure/Animals/LizardsLimbless.html) as distinguished from snakes – most of the first paragraph about the sheltopusik (which I’d never heard of) draws the distinctions between limbless lizards and snakes. Palms supposedly also grow in the Scilly Isles (where Eric Idle had a cabinet office, something to do with walks…). ---
**Author:** ![Jerseyman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Jerseyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerseyman)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/39 "2009-07-05T22:32:39Z")
Are there any lizards on the British mainland apart from slowworms? I’d imagine that no escaped snakes have established themselves in Ireland because there aren’t enough escaped snakes. They’d almost certainly have been kept in a city and then it needs a pair of the right kind of snake to meet up and do the business and somewhere warm enough for the eggs to hatch before something eats them. All very unlikely. Ireland is wetter and cloudier than Britain so not much direct sunlight and since a lot of snakes burrow that’s not very healthy when it’s raining every other day and half the country is acid bog. If the mouse invasion I had last year is anything to go by, I know which I’d be backing if any snake smaller than a mature python meets the local sewer rats! I doubt that urban foxes would be fussy either. All the zoo snakes are in heated habitats. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741/40 "2009-07-05T22:43:34Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > OK, I’ll bite, what’s the difference? “These lizards are often distinguishable from snakes on the basis of one or more of the following characteristics: possessing eyelids, possessing external ear openings, lack of broad belly scales, and/or a very long tail (while snakes have a long body and short tail).” (From wikipedia, ‘Legless lizard’) They also apparently often have atrophied limbs that are still recognizable anatomical features, if not recognizable as what they once were. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-no-snakes-now-in-ireland/501741.md?page=3)