# Why are there so few English words ending with "v"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 10, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374 "2016-12-10T19:56:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/1 "2016-12-10T19:56:19Z")
As anyone into crosswords or Scrabble knows, there aren’t a whole lot of words in the English language ending with the letter “v”. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/2 "2016-12-10T20:22:10Z")
I don’t know the answer, but I can at least refine the question a bit. I can think of plenty of examples of words that end in a V sound: Move, have, live, love, dove, rove. But it seems like all of them are spelled with an e after the v, even when that would seem to contravene usual English rules for a final E (for instance, “live” (the verb) is pronounced “liv”, even though it looks like it should always be “live” (the adjective)). ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/3 "2016-12-10T20:28:33Z")
Well, luv, don’t reckon I got time for that. Busy doing improv in the lav with a perv using a shiv, guv. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/4 "2016-12-10T21:05:39Z")
Most of which are shortened or affected forms of words spelled without the final V. “Shiv” is the only one that’s not, and it appears to come from Romany, a rather atypical source for English vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/5 "2016-12-10T21:39:33Z")
A few Yiddish (?) words suitable for scrabble: lev, tav… A few abbreviations: rev, the ones abov Lots of Russian surnames: Romanov Not lots of English words ending in b, j, q or u. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/6 "2016-12-10T22:24:35Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > A few Yiddish (?) words suitable for scrabble: lev, tav… > A few abbreviations: rev, the ones abov > Lots of Russian surnames: Romanov > Not lots of English words ending in b, j, q or u. Ebb, flub, comb, lamb, plumb, nob, nib, crib, tab, jib… just off the top of my head in about 10 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/7 "2016-12-10T22:37:21Z")
Not many words come to us from Russia or other countries where words more commonly end in a ‘v’. Most of our language is a mishmash derived from Romance and Germanic languages. Some words from eastern Europe that end in ‘w’, like Krakow, are pronounced with more of a ‘v’ sound than a ‘w’; they say crack-oov, we say crack-ow. In Germany, a ‘v’ is pronounced like ‘f’ and a ‘w’ is pronounced like a ‘v’. So Volkswagen is ‘folksvagen’. My $.02, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/8 "2016-12-10T22:46:04Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > A few Yiddish (?) words suitable for scrabble: lev, tav… > A few abbreviations: rev, the ones abov > Lots of Russian surnames: Romanov > Not lots of English words ending in b, j, q or u. I’d say there are a lot more for b than the others. rub a dub dub time to scrub the tub Lack of common words ending in q likely has a lot to do with q normally requiring a u immediately following other than in some very foreign based words where it’s basically used in place of where, were it an english word, k or ck would go. For that matter, I can’t think of many common words ending in c either. It’s usually ck or k or s, depending on which c sound is used. or even ce for words like ice. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/9 "2016-12-10T22:47:13Z")
Blame it on the French. They’re always a good whipping boy for English spelling irrationalities. BTW, one of the most common English words: **of** , is one of the few (if not only) words that have an F that’s not pronounced /f/. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/10 "2016-12-10T22:49:06Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > For that matter, I can’t think of many common words ending in c either. It’s usually ck or k or s, depending on which c sound is used. or even ce for words like ice. How about all the words that end with -ic: public, music, basic, … ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/11 "2016-12-10T23:21:50Z")
I wrote a quick program to analyze the distribution of final letters in 471,042 words from /usr/share/dict/words on my Linux system. V is the third least common final letter, behind J and Q. ```auto e 44194 18.74% y 27746 11.76% s 26059 11.05% n 19961 8.46% d 15988 6.78% r 15462 6.56% l 14926 6.33% t 14822 6.28% a 12594 5.34% c 11323 4.80% m 8861 3.76% g 6431 2.73% h 4753 2.02% k 2645 1.12% o 2299 0.97% p 2198 0.93% i 1983 0.84% f 918 0.39% x 793 0.34% w 702 0.30% u 523 0.22% b 476 0.20% z 143 0.06% v 37 0.02% j 17 0.01% q 6 0.00% ``` ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/12 "2016-12-10T23:34:07Z")
Thanks for the list, confirms b is relatively rare for a last letter. But really, in any language some letters are going to be rare. And some letters mainly used on “foreign” words, like q without u (qat, qoph, qintar)… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/13 "2016-12-10T23:37:28Z")
Russian is one of a number of languages where voiced consonants lose their voicing at the end of a word. Hence, “Romanov” is pronounced “Romanoff” in its base (nominative) form. English may have acquired the habit of adding the “e” to the end of words that end in “v” as a sort of vestige of its ancestry and kept it out of habit. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/14 "2016-12-10T23:38:32Z")
Great post, **markn+**. Thank you for that. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/15 "2016-12-11T00:12:09Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > I wrote a quick program to analyze the distribution of final letters in 471,042 words from /usr/share/dict/words on my Linux system. V is the third least common final letter, behind J and Q. I once wrote an article for _Word Ways_ listing all the words I could find ending with J. IIRC, there were about 40 or so. Note that I found them in a variety of dictionaries and virtually all of them were really obscure. I would have done Q, but someone had already beaten me to that by listing all the words that have Q not followed by U. He also found words with QU not followed by a vowel. _Word Ways_ articles are online in pdf format. I could find links to these if anyone really wants them. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/16 "2016-12-11T02:17:02Z")
In Old English, the sounds of F and V were allophones. (“Of” ends in /v/, you’ll note.) So if an F was between two vowels, it sounded like V. Leaf \> Leaves. In other words, originally, words couldn’t end in the V sound. They’d be pronounced -F. For example, the Old English word for “hive” is “hyf.” Time passes, and sound changes happen. We lost some endings. It started to be possible to have a word-final V, but since it was a newer thing, and also since the Roman alphabet didn’t distinguish U & V yet, we spelled final V as VE most of the time. So basically, it’s because V is really historically just a special kind of F in English, and we have loads of words that end in F. S / Z is the same deal. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/17 "2016-12-11T06:40:47Z")
Thanks, guys, for all the info. Some very interesting stuff here. And a special thanks to **markn+**. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/18 "2016-12-11T06:52:52Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Most of our language is a mishmash derived from Romance and Germanic languages. Some words from eastern Europe that end in ‘w’, like Krakow, are pronounced with more of a ‘v’ sound than a ‘w’; they say crack-oov, we say crack-ow. [nitpick] Actually, they (assuming you mean Poles) say it with an “f” sound at the end. A “w” in Polish is normally what we call a “v” sound in English, but at the end of a word (and in some other cases), it’s unvoiced, so an “f.” So, more like “CRAH-koof.” [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/19 "2016-12-11T07:26:21Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > In Old English, the sounds of F and V were allophones. (“Of” ends in /v/, you’ll note.) So if an F was between two vowels, it sounded like V. Leaf \> Leaves. > > In other words, originally, words couldn’t end in the V sound. They’d be pronounced -F. For example, the Old English word for “hive” is “hyf.” > > Time passes, and sound changes happen. We lost some endings. It started to be possible to have a word-final V, but since it was a newer thing, and also since the Roman alphabet didn’t distinguish U & V yet, we spelled final V as VE most of the time. > > So basically, it’s because V is really historically just a special kind of F in English, and we have loads of words that end in F. S / Z is the same deal. Nit pick: In Old English, the plural of “léaf” is “léaf” [nom], “léaf”[acc], “léafa” [gen], “léafum” [dat] ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374/20 "2016-12-11T07:44:05Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > BTW, one of the most common English words: **of** , is one of the few (if not only) words that have an F that’s not pronounced /f/. Yes, but the implication of the wording here is that letters somehow have agency and intrinsically make sounds, but they don’t. Rather, we use them to _represent_ sounds, with varying degrees of consistency in English. So I would say the way to describe this situation is that it’s one of the few (if only) instances where /v/ is written with an “f,” (and that’s because of the phonological changes **Dr. Drake** describes above). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-english-words-ending-with-v/774374.md?page=2)