# Why are there so few ocean liners left sailing? (I think there is only one currently) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 2, 2023, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933 "2023-06-02T22:19:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/21 "2023-06-04T14:45:58Z")
I would place a premium on a more stable ship and I, personally, hate the notion of those massive ships. I would want something smaller (not that the QM2 is small). I guess that puts me in the niche category and given I don’t take cruises they certainly do not care about my opinions. But those monster 6,000 passenger cruise ships seem awful. Just my $0.02. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/22 "2023-06-04T15:38:42Z")
Smaller than Titanic? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/23 "2023-06-04T15:39:46Z")
I would think that without passengers there would be plenty of supplies for the crew. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/24 "2023-06-04T16:02:48Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > t carried chickens for eggs and cows for fresh milk, possibly contributing to a memorable set of aromas by voyage’s end. I daresay the livestock tenders fertilized the ocean every day. Probably kept the critters abaft so the wind would carry the odors away. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/25 "2023-06-04T16:08:17Z")
Same here, no way, no how would i ever cruise on one of those behemoths, for many reasons. But I do have an acquaintance who spent three weeks on a couple of ships when between apartments – with food and accommodations as a package, it was cheaper and more pleasant than motels/restaurants for the hiatus. He mentioned that there are retirees who have chosen to live aboard a cruise ship rather than in a retirement community. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/26 "2023-06-04T16:40:40Z")
I mentioned the Wind Surf above. There are plenty of small cruise ships in the 200-500 passenger range, and lots of them make ocean crossings. There is much to be said for a smaller ship. You can go into smaller ports, thousands of people aren’t crowding every port, there are no lines, and you get great service. It’s also not as expensive as you’d think. $2499 for a 14 day ocean crossing is only $180 per day or so, for all meals, entertainment and accomodations. That’s the price of a cheap hotel. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/27 "2023-06-04T20:48:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I would place a premium on a more stable ship and I, personally, hate the notion of those massive ships. I would want something smaller Well, i would certainly prefer a smaller ship, personally. But i don’t like casinos, either. I’m also not the target market. I’ve been sea sick, but i imagine I’d get used to the motion in a day or so, and “it rolled too much” isn’t a complaint I’ve ever heard from friends who enjoy cruising. So I’m not sure there’s much market premium on a more stable ship. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/28 "2023-06-04T21:42:39Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’ve been sea sick, but i imagine I’d get used to the motion in a day or so, and “it rolled too much” isn’t a complaint I’ve ever heard from friends who enjoy cruising. So I’m not sure there’s much market premium on a more stable ship. I suspect 99% of cruises are nice and smooth not least because the ships will actively try to avoid storms (changing the itinerary happens on ships due to this…it seems it is not uncommon). But, getting battered by storms does happen. This occurred less than a week ago: > **[Terrifying video shows a storm flooding decks and hallways of a Carnival...](https://www.businessinsider.com/video-storm-flooded-carnival-sunshine-cruise-ship-left-passengers-sick-2023-5)** > > Carnival Cruise Line told Insider extreme weather and rough seas impacted the ship's return, but it's now already onto its next destination. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/29 "2023-06-05T00:30:03Z")
I took the QE2 from NY to France in 1980, and lots of regular cruises since. Not all that much different except the QE2 was a lot more formal, with regular seatings for dinner and lunch. It had a casino, shows, even movies. But no stops between. It was an older ship than the current ones, and it had first class and transatlantic class, unlike the one class for all modern ships. I was on the SS United States as a kid when my great aunt was taking it to England. Back then guests were allowed on. I was impressed by her stateroom. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/30 "2023-06-05T01:12:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > There are plenty of small cruise ships in the 200-500 passenger range, and lots of them make ocean crossings. It appears that most of them still suck environmentally, though, even compared to notoriously environmentally-sucky air travel, [according to this analysis.](https://theicct.org/marine-cruising-flying-may22/) I don’t know how much practical difference sail-only capacity would make to those results, though. > [@](#): > > How do the CO2 emissions from cruising compare with those from flying? […] > > This is for CO2 only. Counting the climate impacts of [short-lived climate pollutants](https://www.ccacoalition.org/en/content/short-lived-climate-pollutants-slcps) (SLCPs) like methane, black carbon, and especially persistent contrails from aircraft would change the math. While still uncertain, [scientists’ best estimate](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231020305689) is that the total (CO2 plus SLCPs) climate impact of flying is about three times that of CO2 alone. But cruise ships also emit SLCPs, especially methane, and for simplicity here we’ll compare only CO2 emissions in our cruise-ships-versus-airplanes analysis. > > Cruise ships double as floating hotels, so it’s only fair to also consider emissions from hotel stays for those who fly. […] > > So, if one person goes on a 5-night cruise that covers 2,000 km, at 250 gCO2/pax-km (the most efficient cruise ship line) that passenger is responsible for **500 kgCO2**. The same person flying by jet would emit 160 kgCO2 on an average airline. Adding in the hotel emissions means an extra 15 kgCO2 per night, so 75 kgCO2, and the total is **235 kgCO2**. But basically, as you note, the fundamental issue is that most people these days don’t think of the “travel” part of vacation travel as a main component of their “vacation” (except for bicycle tourists and through-hikers and their ilk). Getting to the destination is typically something to be accomplished as quickly and cheaply as possible in order to enjoy the destination as soon as possible. If the “travel” is intended to be prolonged enjoyable in and of itself, then as you said, it’s not so much a passage as a cruise. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/31 "2023-06-05T01:31:52Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > I daresay the livestock tenders fertilized the ocean every day. Probably kept the critters abaft so the wind would carry the odors away. I recall reading of freighters carrying sheep – a _lot_ of sheep – from Australia to the Middle East. It mentioned you could smell them for miles downwind. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/32 "2023-06-05T01:50:30Z")
I specifically mentioned the Wind Surf, which I have sailed on. It is a sailing vessel, and can travel on wind power alone. When we sailed on her, a couple of legs were done with wind power alone, and most of the time wind was complemented by the diesel engines. The sails are all computer controlled and furl and unfurl without human aid. It’s a really cool ship. We are planning to cruise on her again as soon as we can. I’m guessing it’s the most environmentally friendly cruise liner around, excepting maybe for other sailing ships. But it’s the largest at 535 ft, and can carry 310-342 guests and 210 staff. > **[Wind Surf | Small Cruise Ship | Windstar Cruise Line](https://www.windstarcruises.com/ships/wind-surf/)** > > Wind Surf is the largest sailing cruise ship in the world and is Windstar's flagship. Holding 310 guest in 154 Staterooms. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/33 "2023-06-05T05:57:28Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I specifically mentioned the Wind Surf, which I have sailed on. It is a sailing vessel, and can travel on wind power alone. I still follow the Facebook account of the ship I sailed on years ago, and I hear about some others, as well. There’s one that visits Antarctica every year, and often sails from Cape Horn to the Cape of Good Hope (with a stop at Tristan Da Cunha). If anybody really wants to “get away from it all”, that’s about as far as you can get. I wouldn’t call them cruise ships, or ocean liners. You’re there to be part of the crew, and to participate in sailing the ship. I’ve no idea what their carbon footprints are, but they spend most of their time under sail. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/34 "2023-06-05T14:33:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I specifically mentioned the Wind Surf, which I have sailed on. It is a sailing vessel, and can travel on wind power alone. Yup, I specifically referenced that sail-only capacity in my previous post. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’m guessing it’s the most environmentally friendly cruise liner around, excepting maybe for other sailing ships. It sounds as though [hybrid cruise ships may be closer at present to achieving zero-impact goals than sail-plus-diesel vessels.](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/eco-conscious-sustainable-cruises-cmd/index.html) (There is no denying that sailing ships look way cooler and more fun than the horizontal-skyscraper engine-driven liners, though! Happy sailing!) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/35 "2023-06-05T14:42:04Z")
There is a [luxury cruise ship](https://us.ponant.com/le-commandant-charcot) that claims to be exceptionally eco-friendly despite no sails (it is also an icebreaker). However, the fares are STUPID expensive! ($11,000/week to over $20,000/week). ETA: I see the ship I linked to is included in the article @Kimstu linked. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/36 "2023-06-05T15:44:50Z")
I would add some train travel is about the journey as much, if not more, than the destination. At least that is how I viewed my La Crosse, WI ↔ Everett, WA trip on the Empire Builder (actually part of a bicycle tour, as it allowed me to transport my fully assembled bike) Brian ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/37 "2023-06-05T15:58:21Z")
Yep, an Internet friend of mine living in Ontario took the cross-continent ride across Canada and back to have the experience of the ride (and the passing scenery) itself. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/38 "2023-06-06T01:13:14Z")
Yeah, definitely agree about recreational train travel. For that matter, there are tour buses that would qualify as “about the journey as much as the destination” also. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/39 "2023-12-07T06:24:12Z")
I realize this topic is done but, for those interested, a YouTube channel which focuses on ship design just posted a video (14 minutes long) describing the distinction between a cruise ship and an ocean liner. It’s interesting (I think): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JaIbzetbEUo/maxresdefault.jpg "What is an Ocean Liner?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaIbzetbEUo) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933/40 "2023-12-07T08:15:49Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > There was no refrigeration available so it carried chickens for eggs… Which is sort of weird because eggs neither require refrigeration, nor expire in so short a period. I suppose it makes sense if the kitchen was making the sort of dishes that really require freshly laid eggs (poaching them for example). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-few-ocean-liners-left-sailing-i-think-there-is-only-one-currently/984933.md?page=3)