# Why are there so many sexless marriages if women love sex just as much as men? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 3, 2010, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502 "2010-01-03T09:54:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/221 "2010-01-07T02:52:32Z")
> [@Engineer\_Dude](#): > > Just curious…does she seem to enjoy it once you guys have gotten started? If so, I wouldn’t worry about it. IANIAM, but I’m often tired or stressed out by work and not feeling horny at all, but I’ll still do it with my girlfriend not only because I know she enjoys it, but because I know I’ll enjoy it once we get started. I agree with this. If she needs more time and effort to orgasm than you do, then she may want to know that you are willing to help her get there. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/222 "2010-01-07T03:52:33Z")
First off where are the cites backing the supposed “so many sexless marriages”? Secondly, if a man stops courting his wife/girlfriend sex is going to decrease. And it has nothing to do with her rewarding or not rewarding him. It has to do with a woman’s genetic imperative. Men and woman ARE made differently (yes, yes of course exceptions apply and there are women who treat sex much as a man does). Typically men get turned on if their jeans rub them the wrong (right?) way, or any other teensy trigger. Women are a little more complicated, we don’t take longer or need more to get turned on, on purpose just to annoy men. According the The Kinsey Report and Masters and Johnson, 75% of women need direct clitoral stimulation in order to reach orgasm. Those and other studies since have described female sexuality very well. To put it simply a lot of times it IS that the man doesn’t care enough to make sure she’s having fun as well. After awhile the initial cloud floating sensation of being in love wears off. And if for the wife it’s always 2 minutes of fury and then nothing, well DUUUUH yeah, the marriage is going to gradually get sexless. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/223 "2010-01-07T04:23:52Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > We don’t have a TV in the bedroom. If you want more sex, get it out of there. > We are the only couple I know that doesn’t have a TV in the bedroom. We are also the only couple I know that has as much sex on a regular basis. I think the two are directly correlated. We don’t have a TV in our bedroom, either. Believe it or not, this happens in the family room and it takes me grabbing the remote and turning it off to snap him out of it. Our son is the same way, which is why TV is a weekends-only thing (it turns into a discipline issue if we have somewhere to go, like preschool). I’m beginning to think it should be weekends only for all of us and we should just suck it up and get DVR. But I agree about them being directly correlated. I think a lot of missed opportunities for communication are directly correlated to TV watching. It’s hardly evil, but it doesn’t exactly foster an environment for talking or sexing it up. I’m the only person in my family who has a house rule that no one eats in front of the television, barring a special occasion like a family movie night (can’t have movies without popcorn), and I feel like I have a lot more meaningful communication with my husband and son because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/224 "2010-01-07T06:26:26Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > First off where are the cites backing the supposed “so many sexless marriages”? From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexless_marriage) [QUOTE=Wikipedia] A sexless marriage is a marriage in which little or no sex occurs between the two partners. The US National Health and Social Life Survey in 1994 (Laumann et al. 1994) found that 2 percent of the married respondents reported no sexual intimacy in the past year. The definition of a nonsexual marriage is often broadened to include those \*\*where sexual intimacy occurs less than ten times per year, in which case 20 percent of the couples \*\*in the NHSLS would be in the category. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/225 "2010-01-07T07:49:58Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > If the only way you are ever going to learn about what makes the other sex feel good is to have sex with them and get feedback, you’re going to go through a lot of trial and error, which will result in a lot of bad sex, which will put off your partner from wanting to continue to practice. Specially if feedback is not acceptable. I’ve had flings where we both went there in a “learning” frame of mind, and those were good; after all, even if you’re the grandchild of Casanova and Casanunda and got trained by both grandads, every new lover has his/her own likes/dislikes/needs/peeves. I’ve had others where my partner would either ignore or get angry at any feedback (be it gestual or verbal), or if the feedback didn’t meet his own expectations: not good for either of us. I don’t need to feel attractive (heck, I never feel particularly attractive, I’m _not my type_! - which I think is true of most heteros, hell-ooo), but I need to feel comfortable and safe/secure. Thinking “ohmyGawd I look like a beached whale / I hate it when my hair gets in the way / oh I hope we don’t make any fart-like noises while we’re having intercourse” all seem like insecurities that would cause _dis_comfort. I hate the makeup, but [love the song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjdpSQD2bns). “I don’t want the girl you used to be… you’re one hot mama…” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/226 "2010-01-07T08:31:02Z")
Resolve… not to poison thread… crumbling… > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Secondly, if a man stops courting his wife/girlfriend sex is going to decrease. And it has nothing to do with her rewarding or not rewarding him. It has to do with a woman’s genetic imperative. Men and woman ARE made differently (yes, yes of course exceptions apply and there are women who treat sex much as a man does). Typically men get turned on if their jeans rub them the wrong (right?) way, or any other teensy trigger. Women are a little more complicated, we don’t take longer or need more to get turned on, on purpose just to annoy men. Doubtless. On the other hand, after we’ve been knocked back enough times, we see that the effort/reward ratio in this whole “courting” thing is way out of whack, and we stop trying. > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > According the The Kinsey Report and Masters and Johnson, 75% of women need direct clitoral stimulation in order to reach orgasm. Those and other studies since have described female sexuality very well. To put it simply a lot of times it IS that the man doesn’t care enough to make sure she’s having fun as well. After awhile the initial cloud floating sensation of being in love wears off. And if for the wife it’s always 2 minutes of fury and then nothing, well DUUUUH yeah, the marriage is going to gradually get sexless. And if for the wife (or other SO) it’s always the orgasm she wants, how she wants it, and several of hers to one of his…? well DUUUUH yeah, one way or another it’ll still turn out to be His Fault. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/227 "2010-01-07T11:37:32Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > According the The Kinsey Report and Masters and Johnson, 75% of women need direct clitoral stimulation in order to reach orgasm. Tangential question/comment… I don’t dispute that statistic, but… I don’t know how y’all are doin’ it, but I get plenty of direct clitoral stimulation during any sort of face-to-face intercourse. I don’t understand what contortions are happening that you’ve got two people grinding against each other with no clitoral stimulation. If you’re not getting enough, well… can’t you just shift a little? Modify the rhythm? Get on top? DO _something_? ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/228 "2010-01-07T13:11:12Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Tangential question/comment… > > I don’t dispute that statistic, but… I don’t know how y’all are doin’ it, but I get plenty of direct clitoral stimulation during any sort of face-to-face intercourse. I don’t understand what contortions are happening that you’ve got two people grinding against each other with no clitoral stimulation. If you’re not getting enough, well… can’t you just shift a little? Modify the rhythm? Get on top? DO _something_? This thread is just full of ‘well, I don’t know what the problem is, [XX] works for me!’. People are _different_. It doesn’t really _matter_ if someone gets off in a stiff breeze and another needs a 1 hour warmup, it doesn’t make the criticism any different. (My wife’s experience is significantly different than yours. You’re 'can’t you just do it _different_ is annoying, don’t you THINK we’ve tried different things?\*) Likewise, it doesn’t really MATTER if Kinsey says 20% of the couples are in sexless marriages. If you’ve never had the ‘pleasure’ of being in a sexless relationship, count your blessings…and if that’s the case, you can’t POSSIBLY comment in a way that benefits. It’s a rotten, awful, crappy, empty, soul-sucking place to be. …and there’s enough people contributing to the ‘I’ve experienced it’ side of the equation to make it statistically significant. Enough people are there (or have been in the past), and it’s decidedly unfun. - = What’s curious is: after 14 years of marriage and 2 years of courtship, and an average of 14 sessions a year, we’re _still_ finding new ways to scratch that itch. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/229 "2010-01-07T13:41:36Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Tangential question/comment… > > I don’t dispute that statistic, but… I don’t know how y’all are doin’ it, but I get plenty of direct clitoral stimulation during any sort of face-to-face intercourse. I don’t understand what contortions are happening that you’ve got two people grinding against each other with no clitoral stimulation. If you’re not getting enough, well… can’t you just shift a little? Modify the rhythm? Get on top? DO _something_? And in all honesty, some do fine with just enough foreplay to get them wet, some like fingering to orgasm to begin with and can then get plenty more orgasms from PIV, some like to get most of the way there before shifting to intercourse but simply _cannot_ come again in a hurry once they’ve got there… All of these are acceptable, manageable and fun in their own way unless you’re some kind of odd fellow who doesn’t like experimenting with girlyparts to see what works best. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/230 "2010-01-07T14:54:39Z")
> [@Unintentionally Blank](#): > > People are _different_. It doesn’t really _matter_ if someone gets off in a stiff breeze and another needs a 1 hour warmup, it doesn’t make the criticism any different. > [@Malacandra](#): > > All of these are acceptable, manageable and fun in their own way I agree with both of these points. All I’m saying is that I’ve seen some posts in here complaining about how the other partner doesn’t do enough to get you off, and I’m just pointing out that orgasms aren’t much different from anything else in life. Don’t sit around waiting for someone to give it to you, figure out how to get it for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/231 "2010-01-07T15:17:04Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I agree with both of these points. All I’m saying is that I’ve seen some posts in here complaining about how the other partner doesn’t do enough to get you off, and I’m just pointing out that orgasms aren’t much different from anything else in life. Don’t sit around waiting for someone to give it to you, figure out how to get it for yourself. I agree with you. In an ideal situation both partners contribute equally to figuring out what is most fun to do. But I think the emphasis on techniques has been driven in part by male posters who are alleging that their wives do not have an interest in having sex any more, so the answers are skewed in a particular direction. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502/232 "2010-01-07T17:33:03Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > [bolding mine] > Everyone? Really? Is that what you’re getting from all the posts from guys: that women are manipulative shrews? No, not everyone. I’m sorry if I inadvertently slighted anyone with my remark, including you. > [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > **Olives** , > I hope you don’t feel like your voice isn’t being heard here. I’m a woman and I’ve followed this thread with great interest because I dealt with a sexless marriage for many years. A number of different women with different viewpoints have posted in this thread. While there have been a few posts here regarding women’s sexuality that I felt were insulting or misinformed, I think for the most part this thread has addressed issues relevant to marriage and married sex with more nuance than you’re suggesting. I agree the discussion here is more nuanced than I implied. There have been a series of threads lately with a vocal subset of people complaining about how horribly manipulative and irrational women are, and it’s getting on my nerves. These generalizations appear to be based mostly on poor choices in relationships and bitterness toward exes/current shitty wives. Particularly, as in this context, I qualify to respond. \*\*I am in a sexless marriage. \*\* It’s been two months and prior to that it was over nine months since my last sexual encounter with my husband. This is my fault. Or rather, it is because of me–I am the person not wanting sex. I have PTSD and have suffered with depression for most of my life. I have a low body image. Most of the time sex is an anxiety-provoking, physically painful and exhausting prospect for me. I am extremely attracted to my husband and am not, by any stretch of the imagination, ‘‘withholding’’ sex from him. It hurts me too. Sometimes I think it hurts me more deeply, because every time I apologize for it, he gets angry and thinks I’m implying something is wrong with the relationship. We have been doing everything in our power for years to make this situation better (I say ‘‘we’’ because eventually we figured out it is better to externalize this as something we are facing as a team rather than think of it as ‘‘my problem’’), and I do believe I have finally found something that will work. I am doing prolonged exposure therapy which is extremely difficult and time-consuming but it has an 80% success rate. Over the last decade I have spent hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars on trying to improve in this area. However, I resent the implication that has been voiced rather commonly on the Dope, that sex is somehow essential to all good marriages. My husband and I have a fantastic, loving, ideal marriage. We are affectionate and cuddly and heap praise upon one another daily. When I AM in the mood, we have one hell of a time. Every time we get into one of these threads I end up feeling guilty and horrible for not being the ‘‘ideal wife’’ and for not being able to give him what he deserves as my loving husband. But when I talk to him about this, he is insulted by the notion that our lack of sex invalidates the tremendous marriage we have. In other words, we care that we are not having sex, but we have decided it is not going to stand in the way of our love for one another and it is not the highest priority in our lives right now. I realize this is going to be very difficult for some people to grasp, which is why I’m trying to explain it thoroughly. I just can’t help thinking, based on past comments, that some people will hear, ‘‘9 months? NINE MONTHS!!! THAT POOR GUY!’’ and keel over dead. My husband is not to be pitied and I am tired of the constant sort of societal implication and message from the media and… everything… implying that he is. Or that something is wrong with our marriage. Because there is nothing wrong with our marriage. > [@](#): > > (That said, I haven’t followed many other threads at the Dope touching on women’s sexuality or other issues, so I have no idea what a typical Doper stance on women’s issues would be like.) Oh, you’re in for a treat. > [@](#): > > I agree with the factors you’ve listed as being more likely to affect women than men. For me, how I’m feeling about my looks on a particular day definitely affects how sexy I feel. I’ve never discussed it with a male partner, but now that you mention it, it does seem that my male partners, including my ex-husband and my current partner, do not seem to have the same sensitivity. Based on my own experience, I would add that male depression can also be a factor that affects a man’s libido (IMO, this may be an overlooked factor, particularly for cases in which a couple has already started to have a sexual “problem” of some sort). Yes, depression can affect the male libido as well. Depression has been known to affect libido to the point that it is specifically mentioned in the DSM-IV notes following the criteria for depression. I was only thinking some people see sexlessness as a ‘‘woman’s problem’’ because depression is more common among women. > [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > The real crime is this: women carry more body fat…it’s a biological fact of nature. Women are geared for creating, cooking, and nurturing children. There’s nothing WRONG with carrying more fat around. It’s a part of the machinery. It provides the reserves to propagate the species. > > The act of childbirth really takes a toll on a woman’s body. Changes in bone structure, stretch marks, changes in breast structure. It’s exceptionally rare that a woman ‘goes through the process’ and is not changed. > > So, just for doing what you’re biologically _meant_ to do, You end up having esteem and body image issues. How fucked up is that? > > It doesn’t help that society is overly sexualized like it is. That if you don’t meat some un-attainable goal, you’re not worthy. (And 99.99999% of the population can’t _possibly_ meet that image.) This is one of the many reasons I have decided to adopt rather than bear children. Not just for aesthetic reasons, but because I hate being that out of control of my own body. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-sexless-marriages-if-women-love-sex-just-as-much-as-men/523502.md?page=11)