# Why are there so many stop signs on American roads? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 24, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700 "2012-09-24T19:26:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/21 "2012-09-24T23:19:48Z")
Seattle has a lot of “uncontrolled intersections” in residential areas with no stop or yield sign. And, of course, lots of “4 way stops.” I prefer one street having the right of way and the other street having to stop or at least yield. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/22 "2012-09-24T23:39:44Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > fail, I mean Oh, it’s definitely possible to fail an American driving test. I’ve known plenty of people who have. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/23 "2012-09-24T23:40:45Z")
One thing is that the UK will have roundabouts in some situations that have four-way stops in the US. There are far more stop signs in the US than in the UK, but by the same token there are far fewer roundabouts. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/24 "2012-09-24T23:50:50Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > [This intersection](http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=44.638072,-93.227086&spn=0.000005,0.00284&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=44.638072,-93.227086&panoid=RQ5WDWACJDoaWlOCwylFAg&cbp=12,262.47,,0,-0.59) on County Road 70 in an industrial park in suburban Lakeville Minnesota was finally made a 4 way stop after years and years of 2-3 deaths _per year_ from people getting off work and then turning straight out onto the 50mph highway in front of fully loaded semis. Or trucks blowing through the stops and hitting people. Yeah, most of it was idiots running the stop signs on the side streets. But putting stop signs on the main road significantly cut into the number of accidents and deaths. Yeah, that’s the kind of intersection that would in no circumstances at all have a stop sign over here. There’s LOADS of visibility in all directions and no excuse whatsoever for crashing there. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/25 "2012-09-24T23:55:57Z")
[Here](https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=54.157705,-4.638493&spn=0.006848,0.020428&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=54.157705,-4.638493&panoid=yK56S2M7v-gBrlavVBZ3Tg&cbp=12,75.63,,0,19) is a not particularly atypical “yield” on the Isle of Man (and weirdly enough the Isle of Man is actually stricter about stop signs than the UK). Most stop signs need less visibility than that - you will find if you trace the google maps streetview forward you can see enough to pull out (obviously you can’t see much from that view) and there is no reason at all to STOP there - you can’t blow through that at infinity mph (there is no speed limit on any of those roads) **or even 15mph**. But there’s no reason to stop so why make drivers do so? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/26 "2012-09-24T23:56:42Z")
There is a fundamental difference in “intersection-behavior laws” between the USA and at least one European country I know of (I’ve no idea how it works elsewhere). In the Netherlands, when you approach an intersection with no stop-lights or signs (or one with flashing lights) you must always yield to the driver in the cross-street that’s to the right of you. We don’t have any law like that in the U.S. so without stop-signs there would be pandemonium. I guess we could use yield signs, but we would still have to post them at every intersection. I think it’s less confusing (and saves money on signage) when it’s always the same rule regardless of intersection. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/27 "2012-09-25T00:00:46Z")
For reference, [here](https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=ely,+cambridgeshire&hl=en&ll=52.401964,0.2593&spn=0.001784,0.005107&sll=54.15771,-4.638484&sspn=0.006898,0.020428&t=h&hnear=Ely,+Cambridgeshire,+United+Kingdom&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.401957,0.259126&panoid=4c73c-PhTuWvLT4rL1dbWg&cbp=12,257.94,,0,10.73) is the kind of place we use a stop sign. Note the very high hedges/walls on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/28 "2012-09-25T00:02:05Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > There is a fundamental difference in “intersection-behavior laws” between the USA and at least one European country I know of (I’ve no idea how it works elsewhere). > > In the Netherlands, when you approach an intersection with no stop-lights or signs (or one with flashing lights) you must always yield to the driver in the cross-street that’s to the right of you. We don’t have any law like that in the U.S. so without stop-signs there would be pandemonium. I guess we could use yield signs, but we would still have to post them at every intersection. > > I think it’s less confusing (and saves money on signage) when it’s always the same rule regardless of intersection. That’s the ase in several european countries but not over here. It’s actually quite a weird rule when you are driving in France or whatever and someone flies out of a junction between your route national and something that barely qualifies as a road. I can’t say I like it. In France it is overruled with signs rather than flashing lights. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/29 "2012-09-25T00:04:05Z")
(more info: [Priority to the right - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right)) Do NOT adopt that in the US, trust me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/30 "2012-09-25T00:20:39Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > Where I live in the United States, many drivers treat stop **songs** as yield signs if there are no cops around. Stop, in the name of love, before you break my heart… ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/31 "2012-09-25T00:28:22Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > (more info: [Priority to the right - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right)) > > Do NOT adopt that in the US, trust me. In many/most states in the US, that rule applies when two or more cars come to a stop simultaneously at a 4-way stop. So we’re familiar with it, just in a different implementation. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/32 "2012-09-25T00:30:02Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Oh, it’s definitely possible to fail an American driving test. I’ve known plenty of people who have. Indeed…I failed my first drivers test. How did I fail it? I blew through a stop sign. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/33 "2012-09-25T00:32:38Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Indeed…I failed my first drivers test. > > How did I fail it? > > I blew through a stop sign. > > 😃 Heh, I nearly failed by blowing through an uncontrolled intersection. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/34 "2012-09-25T01:23:15Z")
I live on a long side street that’s crossed by many lesser side streets. When my family moved here back in the 50s there were no stop signs on this street, but all the side streets had them. Because of this cars would race down the entire length of our street, causing fairly frequent accidents. And there was drag racing. At some point in the 60s all the intersections became 4-way stops. Damn few accidents now. Of course it’s a pain in the ass to have to stop for every single side street, but there are alternate ways to get from A to B. If the stop signs were replaced by yield signs, too many people would ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/35 "2012-09-25T01:32:01Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > It seems to me a) from when I have been there and b) what I pick up from osmosis that American road junctions have loads and loads of stop signs which just aren’t necessary - they could be what I think you call yield signs (correct me on terminology if wrong) instead, without any junction remoddelling. The essence of a stop sign here is that it’s only put there if it is almost impossible in a normal vehicle to cross the line at even walking pace with enough time to check that nothing is coming - they are therefore on very few junctions. Also, I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble for not actually stopping at one in the very few cases where you actually can go quicker than a couple of miles per hour but then it does seem like American police, (just like the French), are far more focussed on sitting around looking for drivers to give tickets to for “easy” offences that earn revenue than ones here. > > So what’s up with this? Is it deliberate to try to earn money? Outdated standards? Utterly atrocious drivers that can’t be trusted to yield to whoever has the right of way? I’d say two things: 1. In non-city driving, American drivers go very fast and there are often inadequate sight lines. Stopping is necessary or no one would ever get across the intersection in the crossing direction. 2. “Yield” is uncommon-to-unheard of in these situations. Yield signs are used primarily to indicate who has the right of way when traffic going in the same direction is merging. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/36 "2012-09-25T02:50:16Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Yeah, that’s the kind of intersection that would in no circumstances at all have a stop sign over here. There’s LOADS of visibility in all directions and no excuse whatsoever for crashing there. The point is not that there’s visibility. The point is that without a sign, there’s no rule that says that cars need to watch for oncoming traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/37 "2012-09-25T02:55:50Z")
The point is that without the signs, _people died with distressing regularity_. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/38 "2012-09-25T04:04:55Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > In the Netherlands, when you approach an intersection with no stop-lights or signs (or one with flashing lights) you must always yield to the driver in the cross-street that’s to the right of you. We don’t have any law like that in the U.S. so without stop-signs there would be pandemonium. I don’t know about other states, but [that’s basically the law in Ohio.](http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.41) It’s just something that rarely comes up. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/39 "2012-09-25T04:35:42Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > One thing is that the UK will have roundabouts in some situations that have four-way stops in the US. There are far more stop signs in the US than in the UK, but by the same token there are far fewer roundabouts. Hey, the county[sup]1[/sup] I live in just got its sixth[sup]2[/sup] roundabout[sup]3[/sup] this year. At the rate we’re going, we may reach the density of roundabouts in the UK in oh, a couple hundred thousand years… > [@John DiFool](#): > > Stop, in the name of love, before you break my heart… I’ll be the roundabout The words will make you out ‘n’ out [sup]1[/sup] Washington County, Oregon, if you’re interested. [sup]2[/sup] Sixth, as far as I know. There may be a few others. [sup]3[/sup] I’m talking about real roundabouts, not those “traffic circles” formed by placing a circular obstruction in the middle of an otherwise unchanged intersection. Those are just traffic calming devices and we have some of those too. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700/40 "2012-09-25T11:31:06Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Or, because people who use the lesser-traveled road complained to the local government about long waits to get out onto the main road at that intersection. This is an important point. At a lot of these intersections, without some kind of signage or traffic lights, the traffic in the low-density road would either never be able to get through the intersection or they would constantly have to brave pulling into traffic with cross-traffic going at 70 m.p.h. If there’s no stop sign at the intersection, the drivers on the more heavily traveled road take it to mean, “I must never stop or slow down for cross-traffic.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-so-many-stop-signs-on-american-roads/635700.md?page=3)