# Why Are There Still Flat Earthers Around? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 19, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415 "2006-05-19T15:55:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/1 "2006-05-19T15:55:38Z")
Yes, I know this question is akin to asking Conspiracy Theorists or Creationists to look logically at the evidence, but really, how can anyone in this day and age hold such a completely loony theory? I mean surely you could disprove the beliefs of the Flat Earth society simply by taking a round-the-world cruise or (better still) flying? Yet I read in my paper this morning that there is still a bastion of these lunatics (in America, naturally). What’s the explanation? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/2 "2006-05-19T16:04:52Z")
“The Earth is flat because it says so in our Holy Writings. Don’t try to confuse us with easily-observable facts!” ---
**Author:** ![happywaffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee59a6/32.png) [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/3 "2006-05-19T16:06:20Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Clam] Yet I read in my paper this morning that there is still a bastion of these lunatics (in America, naturally). [/QUOTE] Hey, I resemble that remark 🙂 Are you sure they exist? I Googled and found [this](http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm) Web site for the Flat Earth Society, which seemed serious at first but turns out (I’m pretty sure) to be a straight-faced joke. Looks like the Flat Earth Society had 3,000 people at most in recent years, which out of the whole Western world ain’t that many: > **[Modern flat Earth beliefs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society)** > > Anti-scientific beliefs in a flat Earth are promoted by a number of organizations and individuals. The claims of modern flat Earth proponents are not based on scientific knowledge and are contrary to over two millennia of scientific consensus based on multiple confirming lines of evidence that Earth is roughly spherical. Flat Earth beliefs are classified by experts in philosophy and physics as a form of science denial. Flat Earth groups of the modern era date from the middle of the 20th centur... And here’s a pretty good, interesting, poignant article about the most recent leader, Charles Johnson: > **[Donald Simanek's Pages; science, pseudoscience, education, humor.](https://dsimanek.vialattea.net/home.htm)** > > physics, history of science, > pseudoscience, hoaxes, writing, education, skepticisism, humor, quotes, > illusions, 3d stereo photography. It more than anything gives a good overview as to the mindset of these few looney toons. (There are probably many more people “hearing voices” than people that believe the world is flat, if that helps you put it in perspective.) ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/4 "2006-05-19T16:15:22Z")
Why shouldn’t there be flat earthers? The earth certainly looks flat. It’s shape is only determiniable by some fairly sophisticated geometric inferences. I think a strong tendency is to adapt the point of view that is directly observable rather than that which is arrived at only after a lot of logic. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/5 "2006-05-19T16:15:59Z")
Because there’s nothing for them to fall off of, after all. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/6 "2006-05-19T16:20:10Z")
Fair enough, I realise the human capacity for self-deception is infinite, but what if we were to take one of these Earters in a cross-polar plane flight (traversing the world from pole to pole on both sides). From the images in the article you linked to, that would surely undermine their cosmology? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/7 "2006-05-19T16:31:24Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Clam] Fair enough, I realise the human capacity for self-deception is infinite, but what if we were to take one of these Earters in a cross-polar plane flight (traversing the world from pole to pole on both sides). From the images in the article you linked to, that would surely undermine their cosmology? [/QUOTE] Well, the earth might be an infinitely-repeating flat surface, so if you go pole-to-pole-to-pole, you’re actually at a different-but-identical pole than the one you started out with. This would hold true for any other location you might leave from and return to. Identical locations, identical people, etc. As far as photos from space are concerned . . . well, it might be just a space-warping illusion. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/8 "2006-05-19T16:35:07Z")
Because most of them stay away from the edges! Tris ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/9 "2006-05-19T17:01:32Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] Why shouldn’t there be flat earthers? The earth certainly looks flat. It’s shape is only determiniable by some fairly sophisticated geometric inferences. I think a strong tendency is to adapt the point of view that is directly observable rather than that which is arrived at only after a lot of logic. [/QUOTE] You do not need fancy geometry. Go flying…from altitude the curvature of the earth is observable. I’d even say a trip up a very tall building will let you see a sublte curvature (at least so I thought last time I was at the top of the Sears Tower…might have been hallucinating). Or go to sea and note that you can see the mast of distant ships before you can see the hull of a distant ship. Then of course there is the issue of just looking up and seeing our very globe shaped moon or look through a telescope at any other planet or our sun. I suppose they could say the earth is somehow “special” and flat unlike everything else in the universe but you have to be seriously closeminded to let that keep your faith in a flat earth. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/10 "2006-05-19T17:43:04Z")
Most of the FE guys are just in it for the Bud Light. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/11 "2006-05-19T21:09:14Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] You do not need fancy geometry. Go flying…from altitude the curvature of the earth is observable. I’d even say a trip up a very tall building will let you see a sublte curvature (at least so I thought last time I was at the top of the Sears Tower…might have been hallucinating). Or go to sea and note that you can see the mast of distant ships before you can see the hull of a distant ship. Then of course there is the issue of just looking up and seeing our very globe shaped moon or look through a telescope at any other planet or our sun. I suppose they could say the earth is somehow “special” and flat unlike everything else in the universe but you have to be seriously closeminded to let that keep your faith in a flat earth. [/QUOTE] Well, I think you are interpreting what you see on the basis of a spherical earth assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/12 "2006-05-19T21:28:29Z")
I remember reading that the late president of the Flat Earth society was married to an Australian ironically enough. She told him that despite what the globes show, she never remembered feeling upside down there. That is good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/13 "2006-05-19T21:38:09Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] Well, I think you are interpreting what you see on the basis of a spherical earth assumption. [/QUOTE] What other explanation could there be for the observational phenomenon that the horizon curves? From that you can’t necessarily say the Earth is a sphere, but you can say at the least that it’s a comparitively shallow conical shape at which you are at the “point”; you could keep going to different places in order to show there’s no place at which you can look _up_ at the Earth, although the weakness with that is you _could_ say the earth is flat with many different conical “points” coming up from it, far enough away from each other that they create the illusion of sphericity. Either way, though, it’s certainly not flat. And if it’s not a physical phenomenon, but mental (i.e. something within us is incapable of seeing the true flatness of the Earth) then their position is as equally flawed as round-earthers; if we are “tricked” by our brains into thinking the Earth is round, then who is to say that flat-earthers are not equally “tricked”? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/14 "2006-05-19T22:40:09Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] What other explanation could there be for the observational phenomenon that the horizon curves? [/QUOTE] I’m sure it could be written off as some kind of optical effect - not necessarily _with any legitimacy_, but that would be entirely beside the point when we’re talking about a philosophy of denial. On Venus (which is a sphere, orbiting our flat Earth), the atmosphere is apparently so dense that the observer would perceive the horizon all around him to be raised; as if he’s constantly sitting in the bottom of a bowl - this is because of the refractive index of the atmosphere, which is a function of its density; now the Earth’s atmosphere is considerably less dense, so the ‘bowl’ effect is not only negated, it is slightly reversed and the observer perceives himself to be atop a shallow dome. See? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/15 "2006-05-19T22:50:11Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] On Venus (which is a sphere, orbiting our flat Earth), the atmosphere is apparently so dense that the observer would perceive the horizon all around him to be raised; as if he’s constantly sitting in the bottom of a bowl - this is because of the refractive index of the atmosphere, which is a function of its density; now the Earth’s atmosphere is considerably less dense, so the ‘bowl’ effect is not only negated, it is slightly reversed and the observer perceives himself to be atop a shallow dome. See? [/QUOTE] On the earth when you are standing on the deck of a ship at sea it appears that you are standing in a bowl. I don’t think those who believe the earth is flat waste much time trying to explain various clues to the actual roundness. Locally, it looks flat and so it is flat is QED to them. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/16 "2006-05-19T22:49:41Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] See? [/QUOTE] To which I would say, “Prove Venus is a sphere, or capable of being a sphere”. If they can do that, then they’ve also gathered information that would suggest Earth is/is capable of being a sphere, too. Anyway, I addresed that in my post; i’d consider than a “mental” effect (we’re unable to see it for what it really is) then at the very least our position holds just as much legitimacy as theirs; if we’re wrong because we can’t see it for what it is, how can we trust any of their observations, which are equally flawed? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/17 "2006-05-20T01:28:38Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] On the earth when you are standing on the deck of a ship at sea it appears that you are standing in a bowl. [/QUOTE] It has that appearance but how do you explain being able to see the masts of a ship (or high points if you prefer) before you can see the rest of the ship? If the sea was flat you’d see the whole ship as soon as it was in range to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Arjuna34](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Arjuna34](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arjuna34)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/18 "2006-05-20T03:37:24Z")
Cecil has a column related to this: [You say the earth is round? Prove it](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_087.html) ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/19 "2006-05-20T04:53:59Z")
Some people are just contrary. They like doing stuff like believing, or saying they believe, in a flat earth. Just like some Dopers will go to see a movie like _The Da Vinci Code_ just to annoy certain people, they enjoy annoying others by insisting the earth is flat. It’s possible that this contrariness is something Americans enjoy doing more than others, but I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2006, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415/20 "2006-05-20T11:14:45Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] To which I would say, “Prove Venus is a sphere, or capable of being a sphere”. If they can do that, then they’ve also gathered information that would suggest Earth is/is capable of being a sphere, too. [/QUOTE] You can see Venus with a telescope and observe that it’s spherical; you don’t even need a telescope to see the Earth and it’s plain to see that it’s flat. But really, this is a pointless exercise; flat-earthers (if any sincere ones still existed), along with other people determined to hold firm to assorted absurd unreal views, _simply cannot be reasoned with_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-there-still-flat-earthers-around/357415.md?page=2)