# Why are they pushing Fentanyl these days? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822 "2017-08-05T02:52:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/21 "2017-08-07T18:51:04Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > :dubious: > > Unless fentanyl is quite a bit denser than heroin, I doubt that photograph is accurate. Perhaps you know something experts don’t but for now I’ll take the experts’ word on this. > [@](#): > > On the left, a lethal dose of heroin; on the right, a lethal dose of fentanyl. Photo from New Hampshire State Police Forensic Lab > > SOURCE: [This photo shows exactly why Fentanyl is deadlier than heroin | PBS News](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/fentanyl-deadlier-heroin-single-photo/) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/22 "2017-08-07T19:00:37Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Doctors are prescribing the correct dosage of fentanyl, so there is not a skyrocketing overdose problem from medically prescribed fentanyl. As I understand it the problems arises when someone who has been on prescription opiate pain medication are cut off (for whatever reason). Then, either because they are still in pain (often the case) and/or because they have become addicted to the prescription medication they turn to illicit drugs like heroin. Once on that path the chances of an overdose increase dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/23 "2017-08-07T19:47:09Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > There’s an elephant in the room when it comes to the opioid crisis and I haven’t seen it discussed anywhere yet. > > Is it actually making things worse? Not to moralize and discriminate against those who do drugs; my own father would not be alive if not for a world-class treatment center. But we all know that stereotypical druggie who would sell his mother’s television for a hit. Drug addicts lead high drama lives and regularly burden our emergency services and our welfare systems. > > And now they are dying. In droves. Politicians do not wish to be seen as cynical and careless so they make speeches but every speech really just boils down to “drugs are bad, mmmkay?” > > It is exactly the kind of “justice” Americans love, the janitor Mr. Darwin cleaning out the gene pool. Drug addicts are doing what God, their parents and the DEA have been warning them all their lives not to do and when they die as a result of ignoring all this sage advice, who is to blame? > > I have seen many posters condemning people to death for making the mistake of doing drugs. Now it is happening, hundreds of druggies dying every day and nothing anyone can (or will) do to stop it. The Tree of Liberty is refreshed by the tainted blood of addicts. And so it goes. The opioid crisis tends to be framed in terms of people dying and preventing deaths. But it is economically devasting to the affected communities as well. Every cent of disposable income goes to pill mill docs,heroin dealers and pharma companies. No money remains to refresh the community or support local businesses. Businesses suffer losses from theft and have trouble retaining good employees. Large stores find themselves hosting more shoplifters than actual shoppers. Neighbors steal from each other. Large numbers of children are neglected or constantly bounced around between relatives and foster care. Social service agencies don’t have the resources to keep up. And people that think it’s about getting high just don’t understand the depths of the problem. Your doctor may have prescribed those pills for your back pain, but they don’t just target your back. The pain may dampen any euphoria, but those pills are still going to do their work on the pain of your dead end job or stagnant or broken marriage. Or maybe they relieve the pain that comes from being misunderstood and alienated because you’re rich and famous. Or any of the psychological pain we all live with. Not to mention the physical dependence. And OxyContin is EXPENSIVE on the street, the number I’ve heard is $1 per milligram. Which is why so many people turned to heroin. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/24 "2017-08-07T21:02:48Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Perhaps you know something experts don’t but for now I’ll take the experts’ word on this. My point is that we are told that there is 30 mg of heroin in the left vial, and 3 mg of fentanyl in the right vial. As the vials appear to have indentical dimensions, it doesn’t appear that the to drugs are shown in a 10:1 ratio by weight unless the fentanyl is quite a bit more dense than heroin. It’s the expert’s own visual graphic and description that makes me question if they are being truthful. I did a bit of searching for the densities of each drug but haven’t found anything yet that is useful for comparison. I do doubt that the density is that much different between the two substances. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/25 "2017-08-07T21:11:31Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > **My point is that we are told that there is 30 mg of heroin in the left vial, and 3 mg of fentanyl in the right vial.** As the vials appear to have indentical dimensions, it doesn’t appear that the to drugs are shown in a 10:1 ratio by weight unless the fentanyl is quite a bit more dense than heroin. > > It’s the expert’s own visual graphic and description that makes me question if they are being truthful. I did a bit of searching for the densities of each drug but haven’t found anything yet that is useful for comparison. I do doubt that the density is that much different between the two substances. From the article. > [@](#): > > equivalent to about 30 milligrams Maybe that’s a fatal dose of heroin as bought from a dealer (already cut) and the fentanyl is pure. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/26 "2017-08-07T21:19:44Z")
So apples to oranges. Thanks, I missed that ‘equivalent’ wording. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/27 "2017-08-07T21:49:12Z")
May be it has some thing to do with hydrocodone, morphine, codeine, Oxycontin/Oxycodone was the range from 2000 to 2010? And now it is fentanyl as a alternative not realizing it made worse problem so bad they cannot even think about how mad the problem would be!! An alternative to the range of hydrocodone, morphine, codeine, Oxycontin/Oxycodone drug abuse, addicts, pill mills and kids and teens getting hooked on it and using it to get high. So they pushed fentanyl as an alternative and not realizing it made worse problem on thinkable. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/28 "2017-08-07T21:52:04Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > My point is that we are told that there is 30 mg of heroin in the left vial, and 3 mg of fentanyl in the right vial. As the vials appear to have indentical dimensions, it doesn’t appear that the to drugs are shown in a 10:1 ratio by weight unless the fentanyl is quite a bit more dense than heroin. > > It’s the expert’s own visual graphic and description that makes me question if they are being truthful. I did a bit of searching for the densities of each drug but haven’t found anything yet that is useful for comparison. I do doubt that the density is that much different between the two substances. What is the point many hard core heroin users shoot up 30 mg of heroin or 40 mg of heroin… ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/29 "2017-08-08T00:50:14Z")
The other elephant in the room. Many drugs make you feel great, and you can indulge without becoming addicted. I’m not advocating, but I took my share of drugs in HS and college many years ago, and never got hooked. The first time I did cocaine I thought "“This is how I’m _supposed_ to feel.” But never sought them out after college. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/30 "2017-08-08T04:48:33Z")
Another data point: > [@](#): > > **Fentanyl is so deadly that Dauphin County cops won’t do field tests** > > Fears about accidental overdoses from fentanyl have prompted police officers across Dauphin County to halt testing of all drugs they confiscate from suspects. > > Instead, the substances will go straight to the Pennsylvania State Police lab for testing. > > The new policy ends a longstanding practice of officers using field test kits on suspected controlled substances to preliminarily identify them. > > SOURCE: [Fentanyl is so deadly that Dauphin County cops won't do field tests - pennlive.com](http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/08/fentanyl_heroin_public_safety.html#incart_river_index) ---
**Author:** ![Cleophus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/31 "2017-08-08T14:56:54Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > May be it has some thing to do with hydrocodone, morphine, codeine, Oxycontin/Oxycodone was the range from 2000 to 2010? > > And now it is fentanyl as a alternative not realizing it made worse problem so bad they cannot even think about how mad the problem would be!! > > An alternative to the range of hydrocodone, morphine, codeine, Oxycontin/Oxycodone drug abuse, addicts, pill mills and kids and teens getting hooked on it and using it to get high. > > So they pushed fentanyl as an alternative and not realizing it made worse problem on thinkable. You are going along with an assumption that is not correct. Fentanyl is not being “pushed” by doctors. The fentanyl on the black market is not coming from diverted prescriptions. Doctors are not prescribing fentanyl instead of other opioids. Black market fentanyl is produced overseas, typically in China, by clandestine drug labs. It is then smuggled into the US and used in adulterated heroin or counterfeit pills. People are not overdosing on pharmaceutical sources of fentanyl. People OD on black market fentanyl because consistent dosing is very difficult and you are at the mercy of whoever is making the batch to use sane and consistent amounts of fentanyl in the counterfeit products. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/32 "2017-08-10T20:52:42Z")
> [@Cleophus](#): > > You are going along with an assumption that is not correct. Fentanyl is not being “pushed” by doctors. > > The fentanyl on the black market is not coming from diverted prescriptions. Doctors are not prescribing fentanyl instead of other opioids. > > Black market fentanyl is produced overseas, typically in China, by clandestine drug labs. It is then smuggled into the US and used in adulterated heroin or counterfeit pills. > > People are not overdosing on pharmaceutical sources of fentanyl. People OD on black market fentanyl because consistent dosing is very difficult and you are at the mercy of whoever is making the batch to use sane and consistent amounts of fentanyl in the counterfeit products. So if I understand what are saying people are not overdosing on fentanyl from the doctor? Only the fentanyl you get from the street? What about people who get fentanyl from the doctor but take higher dosage than what the recommends? O other means not designed by it? Like people trying to get high snorting it or shooting it up like heroin? Or is it only the fentanyl from the street? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/33 "2017-08-10T21:29:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > As I understand it the problems arises when someone who has been on prescription opiate pain medication are cut off (for whatever reason). > > Then, either because they are still in pain (often the case) and/or because they have become addicted to the prescription medication they turn to illicit drugs like heroin. Once on that path the chances of an overdose increase dramatically. I’m not sure about Fentanyl but with other opioids, what frequently happens is that a doctor prescribes more than the patient needs. (I’ve been prescribed Hydrocodone three times and never finished the bottle before I stopped needing them.) This leads to opioids sitting in medicine cabinets to be stolen (burglars, guests, or family members). Then the thief either takes the drug recreationally or sells it on the street for cash. I’m just saying that there are indirect consequences of opioid prescriptions that can go further than the patient. Cite from the NIH: [Mechanisms of Prescription Drug Diversion Among Drug-Involved Club- and Street-Based Populations - PMC](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2879025/) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/34 "2017-08-11T02:44:00Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > My point is that we are told that there is 30 mg of heroin in the left vial, and 3 mg of fentanyl in the right vial. As the vials appear to have indentical dimensions, it doesn’t appear that the to drugs are shown in a 10:1 ratio by weight unless the fentanyl is quite a bit more dense than heroin. > > It’s the expert’s own visual graphic and description that makes me question if they are being truthful. I did a bit of searching for the densities of each drug but haven’t found anything yet that is useful for comparison. I do doubt that the density is that much different between the two substances. Fentanyl - 1.1g/ml Heroin 1.56g/ml Those look like 3.5ml vials. If they are, then heroin should take up less than 1% of the volume of the vial. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/35 "2017-08-11T03:19:42Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > So if I understand what are saying people are not overdosing on fentanyl from the doctor? Only the fentanyl you get from the street? > > What about people who get fentanyl from the doctor but take higher dosage than what the recommends? O other means not designed by it? Like people trying to get high snorting it or shooting it up like heroin? > > Or is it only the fentanyl from the street? Virtually all drugs have side-effects; there are very few magic bullets. So yes, legally prescribed fentanyl causes addiction and overdose deaths. But these are a small fraction of the total fentanyl addiction and overdose problem–most of it is from the illegal market. On the other side of the coin there are tens of millions of Americans suffering from pain (both acute and chronic). And for some of these fentanyl is the best solution to this pain. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/36 "2017-08-11T05:16:00Z")
**sweat209** : do you live in the U.S.? I can’t remember. I do remember you said that English was not your first language, and that you were helping out people who were learning English with some of your questions here. The reason I bring this up is that doctors in **sweat** ’s area may be different than the U.S., especially in poorer countries. Of course, **sweat** may be talking about the U.S., even if they don’t live there. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/37 "2017-08-12T20:21:38Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Virtually all drugs have side-effects; there are very few magic bullets. So yes, legally prescribed fentanyl causes addiction and overdose deaths. But these are a small fraction of the total fentanyl addiction and overdose problem–most of it is from the illegal market. > > On the other side of the coin there are tens of millions of Americans suffering from pain (both acute and chronic). And for some of these fentanyl is the best solution to this pain. That not point he said people overdose on it from street not from the doctor. The fentanyl epidemic is people getting fentanyl from the street not the doctor. This must have to do with quality control where some fentanyl from one dealer is stronger than other fentanyl from other dealer. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/38 "2017-08-12T20:25:33Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > That not point he said people overdose on it from street not from the doctor. The fentanyl epidemic is people getting fentanyl from the street not the doctor. > > This must have to do with quality control where some fentanyl from one dealer is stronger than other fentanyl from other dealer. No, the problem is it’s near impossible for a dealer to evenly mix the fentanyl through the larger drug mixture. Fentanyl is so potent that a small concentration in the mix is fatal to the person who gets that portion. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/39 "2017-08-12T20:26:11Z")
Who is pushing fentanyl? Government, DEA, media or doctors board that all doctors have to do of what they say? From 2000 to 2010 Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine was range. Now 2010 to now fentanyl is range. So what has changed? If more doctors are giving out fentanyl and less and less doctors are giving out Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine these days. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/40 "2017-08-12T20:28:04Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > No, the problem is it’s near impossible for a dealer to evenly mix the fentanyl through the larger drug mixture. Fentanyl is so potent that a small concentration in the mix is fatal to the person who gets that portion. So why is Fentanyl so potent from the street but not so potent from the pharmaceutical companies that the doctor give you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822.md?page=3)