# Why are they pushing Fentanyl these days? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822 "2017-08-05T02:52:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/41 "2017-08-12T20:29:30Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Who is pushing fentanyl? Government, DEA, media or doctors board that all doctors have to do of what they say? > > From 2000 to 2010 Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine was range. > > Now 2010 to now fentanyl is range. > > So what has changed? If more doctors are giving out fentanyl and less and less doctors are giving out Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine these days. What difference does it make? The street fentanyl is coming from illicit labs, not the Rx supply. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/42 "2017-08-12T20:34:04Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > No, the problem is it’s near impossible for a dealer to evenly mix the fentanyl through the larger drug mixture. Fentanyl is so potent that a small concentration in the mix is fatal to the person who gets that portion. Also a lot of people that do drugs to get high they snort drugs or shoot drugs up like heroin user. I don’t know of any legal drug that the doctor will give you to take legally for medical purposes and ask you to snort drugs or shoot drugs up. Lot of these people that overdose on Fentanyl may be snorting it or shooting it up. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/43 "2017-08-12T20:38:55Z")
Fentanyl is used on the street primarily to substitute for heroin. It’s cheap enough that the dealer can sub in a bit of fentanyl for a larger amount of heroin. The dose has the same overall potency but at a cheaper cost. Fentanyl in it’s pure form is too small an amount to handle on a single dose level. Therapeutic doses are measured in micrograms. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/44 "2017-08-12T20:45:39Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Fentanyl is used on the street primarily to substitute for heroin. It’s cheap enough that the dealer can sub in a bit of fentanyl for a larger amount of heroin. The dose has the same overall potency but at a cheaper cost. > > \*\*Fentanyl in it’s pure form is too small an amount to handle on a single dose level. Therapeutic doses are measured in micrograms. \*\* So in other words it is too potent for the street but some how it okay for therapeutic use because the pharmaceutical companies are doing it and it is less potent for them. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/45 "2017-08-12T20:49:03Z")
With the skyrocketing overdose and media backlash I wonder how long before drug dealers stop making Fentanyl for the street and switch to some thing else? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/46 "2017-08-12T20:52:17Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > \*\* > > So in other words it is too potent for the street but some how it okay for therapeutic use because the pharmaceutical companies are doing it and it is less potent for them. The pharmaceutical companies have the facilities to properly mix the medication so it safe to use (when used properly). You slap on a patch, you should be good. The patches can be cut open to extract the gel and taken all at once but that’s deliberate. The problem on the street is dealers can’t mix the fentanyl evenly, someone gets the minuscule (and fatal) nugget of fentanyl and it’s adios. Like playing Russian Roulette. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/47 "2017-08-12T21:29:26Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > With the skyrocketing overdose and media backlash I wonder how long before drug dealers stop making Fentanyl for the street and switch to some thing else? It’s all supply and demand. So if the demand goes away the dealers will quit making it. But I have the feeling that customers are more concerned that the stuff they are buying is too weak and doesn’t get them high–rather than that the stuff is too strong and some people are overdosing. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/48 "2017-08-12T22:30:09Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Who is pushing fentanyl? Government, DEA, media or doctors board that all doctors have to do of what they say? > > From 2000 to 2010 Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine was range. > > Now 2010 to now fentanyl is range. > > So what has changed? If more doctors are giving out fentanyl and less and less doctors are giving out Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine these days. Oxycontin was obtained from doctors. The DEA clamped down on doctors prescribing opiates, so now there are tons of addicts who can’t get the drugs from their doctors anymore. so they go to the streets. Fentanyl is mostly obtained from China, bought via the black market and shipped to the US. It costs about $2000 for a kilogram. Seeing how a dose of fentanyl is less than 1mg, that means a million doses for $2000, or about 1/5 of a penny per recreational dose. When you consider that a kilo of heroin is about $20,000 and is something like 20x less powerful than fentanyl, the cost incentive to cut heroin with fentanyl is there. I assume a single kilo of fentanyl is enough to cut all the heroin in multiple states. If a kilo provides a million doses, then a few kilos from China can probably supply the entire midwest for a year. Seeing how you need such a small amount, it is easier to smuggle than heroin which requires endless kilos to saturate the market. Opium wars 2, revenge of China. [http://www.news-herald.com/general-news/20170207/where-does-fentanyl-come-from-china-is-primary-source-in-us-and-much-is-ending-up-in-ohio](http://www.news-herald.com/general-news/20170207/where-does-fentanyl-come-from-china-is-primary-source-in-us-and-much-is-ending-up-in-ohio) > [@](#): > > Though there is some pharmaceutical fentanyl being diverted from the legitimate market, the DEA said that makes up “only a small portion of the fentanyl market.” > > China is the primary source of fentanyl in the United States. The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission’s recently released report examines how “China’s illicit chemical production and inefficient U.S. and international counternarcotic efforts” created the stark increase in fentanyl-related deaths. > > “China is a global source of fentanyl and other illicit substances because the country’s vast chemical and pharmaceutical industries are weakly regulated and poorly monitored,” the report states. “Chinese law enforcement officials have struggled to adequately regulate thousands of chemical and pharmaceutical facilities operating legally and illegally in the country, leading to increased production and export of illicit chemicals and drugs.” Fentanyl deaths in Ohio went from less than 100 in 2013 to over 1100 in 2015. By 2016, Cuyahoga county (which is where Cleveland is) had over 500 fentanyl deaths. That county only makes up 1/10th of the entire population of Ohio. And that is just Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/49 "2017-08-12T22:54:40Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > rather than that the stuff is too strong and some people are overdosing. This is actually considered a very good thing to addicts. They know it’s strong enough to accidentally OD on and they also think such a fate could never befall _them_, so they do it with glee. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/50 "2017-08-13T05:22:17Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > don’t know of any legal drug that the doctor will give you to take legally for medical purposes and ask you to snort drugs … I know several people who snort legal prescription drugs for lung problems, mostly asthma or COPD. They actually have inhalers supplied by the pharmacist to snort these drugs. Also, they are now starting to do some immunizations via inhaling the drugs. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/51 "2017-08-13T21:57:45Z")
So why is Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine use down but fentanyl so high? Why is fentanyl the big range these days? Why so many people use fentanyl these days and Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine use down? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/52 "2017-08-13T22:09:36Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > So why is Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine use down but fentanyl so high? > > Why is fentanyl the big range these days? Why so many people use fentanyl these days and Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine use down? As been mentioned several times, fentanyl is cheaper and easier to smuggle due to it’s very high potency and resulting smaller bulk. Would you prefer to hide [this?](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2002214/Heroin-dealer-spared-jail-transplant-list-innovative-heart-surgery-saves-life.html)(1/2 kilo of heroin) Or [this?](http://www.thesunchronicle.com/news/local_news/foxboro-police-arrest-two-men-seize-over-grams-of-fentanyl/article_bfdab7af-afb3-5540-8a99-3c455562d5ec.html) That bag of fentanyl is 50 grams. 1/10th of that is equal to the half kilo of heroin. That also means rather than what ever amount of heroin makes a dose, you can sub in 1/100th of that of fentanyl, the rest is whatever you cut the drug with and it results in a cheaper product with the same potency. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Vallejo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Rick\_Vallejo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Vallejo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/53 "2017-08-14T16:59:32Z")
Sounds like this drug achieves the purest result from what codeine and vicodin could accomplish. Next stop: an immediate euphoric high followed by certain death. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/54 "2017-08-14T20:03:33Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > As been mentioned several times, fentanyl is cheaper and easier to smuggle due to it’s very high potency and resulting smaller bulk. There was lots of drug dealers selling Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine on the streets. So what have changed? Or is Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine harder to make in underground lab than fentanyl? And that is why they switch to fentanyl? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/55 "2017-08-14T21:54:32Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > There was lots of drug dealers selling Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine on the streets. > > So what have changed? > > Or is Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine harder to make in underground lab than fentanyl? And that is why they switch to fentanyl? Oxycodone, hydromorphone, and morphine generally require opium for their manufacture. That’s hard to get. They can be made synthetically, but it’s not that easy. Meanwhile fentanyl is easy-peasy for street chemists to cook up out of other materials than opium. And as was noted earlier, fentanyl is also super cheap and super potent. And switch a few methyl or hydroxyl groups around and it’s a whole new drug that’s not even illegal yet! (tho the modifications may kill the user, or give him instant Parkinsonism) It’s not complicated. Fentanyl: Easier to make, less risk to hide and distribute, brings in tons of money. Why wasn’t it more popular earlier? Because docs were being pushed by the hospitals, who were being pushed by the JCAH to treat pain with opioids until the patient stopped complaining of pain. This resulted in lots of prescription opioids being available. Supply of prescription opioids have dried up, so fentanyl fills the niche. As does heroin, to a lesser extent. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/56 "2017-08-15T16:41:20Z")
That’s nothing. Just wait for Carfentanil. From an addiction recovery website - “Carfentanil is a powerful derivative of fentanyl, a synthetic narcotic analgesic produced from morphine. While fentanyl is about 100 times more powerful than morphine, carfentanil is 100 times more potent than fentanyl, meaning it is 10,000 times more potent than morphine.” Federal Register via Wikipedia"…and a 2016 annual aggregate manufacturing quota of 19 grams.[4]" 19 grams for an entire year. Pretty potent stuff, me thinks. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/57 "2017-08-15T16:53:54Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > This is actually considered a very good thing to addicts. They know it’s strong enough to accidentally OD on and they also think such a fate could never befall _them_, so they do it with glee. Are you actually saying that addicts ODing and killing themselves should be “considered a very good thing?” ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/58 "2017-08-15T21:49:10Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Oxycodone, hydromorphone, and morphine generally require opium for their manufacture. That’s hard to get. They can be made synthetically, but it’s not that easy. > > Meanwhile fentanyl is easy-peasy for street chemists to cook up out of other materials than opium. > > And as was noted earlier, fentanyl is also super cheap and super potent. And switch a few methyl or hydroxyl groups around and it’s a whole new drug that’s not even illegal yet! (tho the modifications may kill the user, or give him instant Parkinsonism) > > It’s not complicated. Fentanyl: Easier to make, less risk to hide and distribute, brings in tons of money. Why wasn’t it more popular earlier? Because docs were being pushed by the hospitals, who were being pushed by the JCAH to treat pain with opioids until the patient stopped complaining of pain. This resulted in lots of prescription opioids being available. Supply of prescription opioids have dried up, so fentanyl fills the niche. As does heroin, to a lesser extent. So you are saying the reason why Oxycodone, hydromorphone, and morphine where so widespread was doctors where subscribing it more back than? Now doctors switched to Fentanyl? Still why where there so many drug dealers selling Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine on the streets back than? Or like you say it was hard to make in underground lab so street dealers switch to Fentanyl because it is easy to make? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/59 "2017-08-15T22:07:04Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > So you are saying the reason why Oxycodone, hydromorphone, and morphine where so widespread was doctors where subscribing it more back than? Now doctors switched to Fentanyl? \<\\> Doctors did NOT switch to fentanyl. I said street chemists made it, to fill the demand for opioids that had previously been met by prescription diversion. Doctors were not prescribing a lot of fentanyl outside of hospital use. Some yes, but not much compared to other opioids. > [@](#): > > Still why where there so many drug dealers selling Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine on the streets back than? Because they were able to get their hands on lots of diverted prescriptions for those drugs. > [@](#): > > Or like you say it was hard to make in underground lab so street dealers switch to Fentanyl because it is easy to make? That’s what I said. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822/60 "2017-08-15T22:17:38Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > Are you actually saying that addicts ODing and killing themselves should be “considered a very good thing?” That’s not at all what he said. Try reading it again. It’s only two sentences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-they-pushing-fentanyl-these-days/792822.md?page=4)