# Why are those in favor of greater gun control opposed to concealed carry licenses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757 "2012-12-11T22:11:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/61 "2012-12-12T03:02:07Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Actually I think the fearful ones are the guys that think they have to carry guns. Let me ask you something…do you actually KNOW someone who legally carries concealed? I do…and they don’t carry because they live in fear. They simply like to be prepared. People who live in fear as the strawman in this thread goes would never GET a CCW, because they would be screened out and denied. You have to demonstrate not only competence with the weapon but responsibility to get the license…which is, again, why you don’t see a lot of incidence of people with CCW licenses firing their weapon in public. Your and others fear, however, is pretty apparent in these sorts of threads, and it’s the driving force, coupled with ignorance, that motivates much of the anti-gun community. They are afraid of their fellow citizens, and afraid of what they think might happen…which chugging down that double cheese burger with extra fries and a diet coke and smoking that second pack a day. Plus…_gulp_…DRIVING to work! OMG…any idea how dangerous THAT is?? :eek::eek: ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/62 "2012-12-12T03:02:08Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Why do you think I don’t carry one? I don’t see the need, and I think that it’s generally a waste of time and effort to get a CCW (it’s a hell of a lot of work, costs money and has to be maintained). So you’re saying that people who carry are irrational? It certainly sounds that way; they’re bad at prioritizing risk to the point where they waste time and money to prepare for scenarios which are statistically not going to happen. Sounds like a completely irrational decision to me. Tell me again why we shouldn’t steer clear of armed, irrational people? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/63 "2012-12-12T03:02:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > That’s just silly. Are you so hyper aware of your environment that you are going to be able to see everyone who carries a gun where ever you are and so fearful that you are going to take steps to avoid any sort of angle that those gun carriers MIGHT have to fire on?? :dubious: > > And, again, what is your fear based on? How many incidents can you point to where someone with a legally concealed firearm has even fired their weapon in public, let alone fired and hurt or killed someone, innocent or otherwise? The reason such incidents make the news is because they ARE so rare. Beats the crap out of me. The question was, “Why are those in favor of greater gun control opposed to concealed carry licenses?” I gave my answer. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/64 "2012-12-12T03:03:55Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Unless you have that backwards, can you point to some ‘pro-guns’ who don’t like CCW, and some ‘anti-guns’ that do? Again, I’ve never, ever heard such sentiments from either side wrt CCW laws…in fact, just the opposite, as is pretty clear in THIS thread. I think the premise is that if you are avidly pro gun, CCW laws impose a burden on you in that you have to have a permit to conceal. Those who are “anti-gun” (or favor strong regulation) feel that the right to conceal should be a very high bar, that you should have to demonstrate a legitimate need for a CCW. And open carry helps us identify the men who have pencils in their panties. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/65 "2012-12-12T03:04:34Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > That’s funny. All of the people pointing at fear for carrying are the same ones that say they want to know who is carrying because they FEAR(don’t want to be around) them. > > Where I live, I know people are armed to the teeth. We can carry concealed. My 70+ mother carries a .357 still. I walk around pretty confident that if a loony goes off, he better be a good shot if he wants to last long. Being so terrified of the outside world that you think you need a gun to move around safely isn’t indicative of a strangle-hold on reality. I try to keep away from delusional people with dangerous machinery. I’m not seeing the equivalence. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/66 "2012-12-12T03:06:29Z")
If I saw a grown non-uniformed man toting his gun around anywhere other than a Hollywood movie set, I would question his risk assessment capabilities. And if a mugger happens by, I’d prefer to not have a reckless trigger happy maniac with a pistol shooting everything in sight like Yosemite Sam.[1] So yeah, I’d avoid him. And I have the statistics to back me up. After controlling for demographics, those carrying loaded weapons in their car are three times more likely to drunk drive and are significantly more likely to drink heavily than the non-gun owning population. [2] So unless our Clint Eastwood has hoofed it over to the local 7-11, I’d say that it would be prudent to keep your distance: his risk perceptions are probably of the fun-house mirror variety. Women face more serious self-defense challenges though, so I’d have a different take for that demographic. [1] …who may be a pacifist, AFAIK, given that his bullets never seem to hit any living critter, including Bugs. [2] Cite: _Association between firearm ownership, firearm-related risk and risk reduction behaviours and alcohol-related risk behaviours_ by Garen J Wintemute ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/67 "2012-12-12T03:11:31Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > So you’re saying that people who carry are irrational? It certainly sounds that way; they’re bad at prioritizing risk to the point where they waste time and money to prepare for scenarios which are statistically not going to happen. Sounds like a completely irrational decision to me. > > Tell me again why we shouldn’t steer clear of armed, irrational people? And to me it sounds like you are defining rationality based on your own world view and outlook and then handwaving risk as something only those carrying guns don’t understand. 😛 I think a lot of people do a LOT of irrational things, depending on ones view point. I keep 3 days supply of food, water and medicine in my house for every member of my family just in case. If there is no emergency in 30 years and I die off, then it was obviously irrational, in hindsight, that I did this, when other people didn’t and they were fine. People smoke, and drink and do drugs. They go out looking for hookers and blow (or blowing hookers). They vote Republican (or Democrat). They like Paula Deen and freaking listen to her wrt dietary choices!! Of those things, Paula’s culinary offerings are much, MUCH more likely to kill a greater number of people than the ‘irrational’ (to you) choice of some Americans to get and maintain a CCW and carry a firearm in public concealed from view. So…who’s irrational? From where I’m sitting it’s the anti-gun types who are the worst judges of risk in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/68 "2012-12-12T03:17:08Z")
I don’t think keeping a supply of food and water is all that irrational, depending on where you live. However, I also would avoid someone who was coked out with a hooker on his arm, and I can’t stand Paula Deen either, so you’re just proving my point. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/69 "2012-12-12T03:17:59Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I keep 3 days supply of food, water and medicine in my house for every member of my family just in case. If there is no emergency in 30 years and I die off, then it was obviously irrational, in hindsight, that I did this, when other people didn’t and they were fine. My understanding of decision theory is that you are stating a common fallacy. When dealing with a probabilistic situation, an appropriate cost/benefit analysis will consider incidents with low probability but high penalty. Of course by definition those events won’t occur most of the time. So yeah, homeowners should buy fire insurance even though most will never use it. > [@](#): > > So…who’s irrational? From where I’m sitting it’s the anti-gun types who are the worst judges of risk in this situation. No, no, no: we are the embodiment of clear-headedness and sweet reason. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/70 "2012-12-12T03:20:17Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > I walk around pretty confident that if a loony goes off, he better be a good shot if he wants to last long. That’s exactly the kind of statement that makes me want to avoid you, or at least know that you have a gun, in case you decide to be a hero. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/71 "2012-12-12T03:22:31Z")
My understanding of what it means to carry a firearm is that, among a host of other reasons, the person may feel the need to shoot somebody. Are you saying I’m irrational for trying to minimize my chances of getting shot? I also steer clear of people with baseball bats, chain saws, large dogs, and lawn mowers. Is that irrational, too? ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/72 "2012-12-12T03:29:03Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > That’s exactly the kind of statement that makes me want to avoid you, or at least know that you have a gun, in case you decide to be a hero. Usual expected stuff…“Hero” “Dirty Harry” “Terrified” “Yosemite Sam” Wanting to protect yourself, knowing other people are protecting themselves, criminals knowing that people are protecting themselves, but not knowing who is protecting themselves is a bad idea. Then you wouldn’t know who was protecting themselves so you could stay away of those terrified, Dirty Harry, Yosemite Sam types. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/73 "2012-12-12T03:30:10Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > My understanding of what it means to carry a firearm is that, among a host of other reasons, the person may feel the need to shoot somebody. Are you saying I’m irrational for trying to minimize my chances of getting shot? I also steer clear of people with baseball bats, chain saws, large dogs, and lawn mowers. Is that irrational, too? You don’t have to shoot. You might only have to show that you have the ability to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/74 "2012-12-12T03:41:33Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > You don’t have to shoot. > > You might only have to show that you have the ability to do so. If I see fingers, a thumb, and a gun, I know the guy has the ability to do so. How does your statement help me? ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/75 "2012-12-12T03:53:50Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > If I see fingers, a thumb, and a gun, I know the guy has the ability to do so. How does your statement help me? You, not so much. Those that think everyone with a gun has a shoot first mindset, though, might be helped…even if it is a reach that they can be. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/76 "2012-12-12T03:59:16Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > You, not so much. Those that think everyone with a gun has a shoot first mindset, though, might be helped…even if it is a reach that they can be. Who said anything about a shoot first mindset? I’m concerned about shoot at all, ever. Or do you believe that the majority of people who carry guns have no expectation of ever firing them, that they are instead some bad-guy stopping magic wand they can point at people and it freezes them in their tracks? ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/77 "2012-12-12T04:25:41Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I also steer clear of people with baseball bats, chain saws, large dogs, and lawn mowers. Is that irrational, too? Most definitely. Are you afraid a Landscaper is going to run you down? Or a Little Leaguer jack you up. Now Loggers I can understand. They’re just creepy. But what did Marmaduke ever do to you? ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/78 "2012-12-12T04:31:48Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Who said anything about a shoot first mindset? The people with the Yosemite Sam, Dirty Harry, Hero comments. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/79 "2012-12-12T04:42:40Z")
Ah, sorry. Not it, then. My mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/80 "2012-12-12T04:45:12Z")
> [@Glazer](#): > > Most definitely. Are you afraid a Landscaper is going to run you down? Or a Little Leaguer jack you up. Now Loggers I can understand. They’re just creepy. But what did Marmaduke ever do to you? Actually, my neighbor’s dog bit me on the face when I was a toddler. And realistically, even though I know it isn’t their plan, I realize my chance of getting hurt by a stray baseball bat, chain saw, lawnmower or garden rake is staggeringly larger than the chance of getting hurt by a gun. Still, I want to see what’s going on around me, even if what’s going on is nothing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757.md?page=5)