# Why are those in favor of greater gun control opposed to concealed carry licenses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757 "2012-12-11T22:11:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/161 "2012-12-14T18:37:41Z")
What happens first, the last blood oozes out of the victims or the gun nuts shouting “NOW ISN’T THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT GUN CONTROL!” ? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/162 "2012-12-14T18:42:57Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What happens first, the last blood oozes out of the victims or the gun nuts shouting “NOW ISN’T THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT GUN CONTROL!” ? Guns don’t kill children. Maniacs do…with guns… ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/163 "2012-12-14T18:44:58Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > imho every citizen should be allowed to own a muzzle-loading rifle for hunting, which were the weapons available when this country was founded. And you’d be shocked and horrified at how lethal a muzzle-loader can be in the hands of someone who’s experienced in using one. No doubt you’d soon be calling for their ban as well. And then we have bombs, crossbows, long bows, swords, and knives (the preferred weapon of Japanese men who go on spree killings) to worry about… The problem isn’t a gun problem; it’s a violence problem. We’ll reduce it by learning what drives men (notice how it’s almost always MEN who engage in these sorts of killings, never women? Time for testicle control, perhaps?) to pick up a weapon and attack total strangers, and by learning how to more accurately predict who is likely to do this and intervene before they have the chance to go on their rampage. Meanwhile, does anyone want to tell the survivors at that school that they didn’t need any guns around, since statistically it was so very unlikely they’d ever have need for one? Knowing the odds are one in a million against something happening is no comfort if you happen to be that one millionth person. Crap like this is one reason why some people choose to legally carry. (Yes, I shop at [Von Maur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads_Mall_shooting) occasionally). ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/164 "2012-12-14T18:51:02Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > Yes, they always use a nice friendly sporting rifle, [like the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clackamas_Town_Center_shooting) used in a random mall shooting just days ago in the Portland Oregon area. In countries like Canada or the UK perhaps the criminals can still manage to smuggle in such high powered weapons High powered? That’s a joke, isn’t it? Try shooting a bear of a moose with an AR-15. Hunting rifles and shotguns that are _common_ in Canada are more than powerful enough to kill people. Canadians aren’t less well-armed than Americans; they own long guns in similar numbers. tThey are, however, less violent. > [@](#): > > Yeah yeah, gun don’t kill people - people kill people. But guns make it a hell of a lot easier. Not really. Killing people actually isn’t that hard. Fortunately, most of us have no desire to do it. That, not restrictive laws, is what keeps us safe (usually). ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/165 "2012-12-14T18:51:41Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > And you’d be shocked and horrified at how lethal a muzzle-loader can be in the hands of someone who’s experienced in using one. No doubt you’d soon be calling for their ban as well. > > And then we have bombs, crossbows, long bows, swords, and knives (the preferred weapon of Japanese men who go on spree killings) to worry about… > > The problem isn’t a gun problem; it’s a violence problem. We’ll reduce it by learning what drives men (notice how it’s almost always MEN who engage in these sorts of killings, never women? Time for testicle control, perhaps?) to pick up a weapon and attack total strangers, and by learning how to more accurately predict who is likely to do this and intervene before they have the chance to go on their rampage. > > Meanwhile, does anyone want to tell the survivors at that school that they didn’t need any guns around, since statistically it was so very unlikely they’d ever have need for one? > > Knowing the odds are one in a million against something happening is no comfort if you happen to be that one millionth person. Crap like this is one reason why some people choose to legally carry. (Yes, I shop at [Von Maur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads_Mall_shooting) occasionally). I agree that this is more of a people problem than a gun problem. That’s why it doesn’t make sense to me to solve it by making sure more people have guns. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/166 "2012-12-14T18:54:52Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Not really. Killing people actually isn’t that hard. Fortunately, most of us have no desire to do it. That, not restrictive laws, is what keeps us safe (usually). Yeah, he would have been able to strangle 20 kids just as easily as shoot them. I always find this line of argumentation from gun lovers strange. They like to pretend that guns don’t make it easier to kill. So why does anyone need guns then? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/167 "2012-12-14T18:56:25Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I think I’ve been whooshed. This person used a glock and a sig sauer. Handguns. Not whooshed. That info wasn’t in the NYT article. I’ll stand by my point, though: many of these spree killings (as opposed to the usual forms of gun violence in this country - gang killings, drug-associated killings, and domestic violence killings) involve long guns. And long guns aren’t what people are usually freaking out about. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s okay though. This is the acceptable loss.we’re comfy with so that we can keep our guns. These kids paid part of the bill for you, so you ought to thank them. > > And the folks in Oregon. And the people who.will be killed in the next major shooting incident two to four weeks from now. And 35,000 deaths per year is the acceptable loss we’re comfy with so we can keep our cars. If people want perfect safety, we’re going to have to become a police state. I don’t think we want that. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/168 "2012-12-14T18:57:38Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Yeah, he would have been able to strangle 20 kids just as easily as shoot them. Strangle them, no. Stab them, yes. Or bomb the school. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/169 "2012-12-14T18:59:25Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Not whooshed. That info wasn’t in the NYT article. I’ll stand by my point, though: many of these spree killings (as opposed to the usual forms of gun violence in this country - gang killings, drug-associated killings, and domestic violence killings) involve long guns. And long guns aren’t what people are usually freaking out about. > > And 35,000 deaths per year is the acceptable loss we’re comfy with so we can keep our cars. If people want perfect safety, we’re going to have to become a police state. I don’t think we want that. Strawman, nobody said anything about perfect safety. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/170 "2012-12-14T19:00:26Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Strangle them, no. Stab them, yes. Or bomb the school. Stab them just as easily as shoot them, really? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/171 "2012-12-14T19:00:28Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Stab them, yes. Dude must be a ninja. > [@artemis](#): > > Or bomb the school. You’re right. We should totally outlaw the sale of bombs. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/172 "2012-12-14T19:04:50Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Not really. Killing people actually isn’t that hard. If guns don’t make it easier to kill people, why do armed forces spend so much money buying them? Why not save money by issuing knives or bats? For that matter, why do people purchase guns for self defense in their homes, when their kitchen is full of perfectly good knives? Why don’t cops carry knives instead of guns? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/173 "2012-12-14T19:07:55Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > And 35,000 deaths per year is the acceptable loss we’re comfy with so we can keep our cars. If people want perfect safety, we’re going to have to become a police state. I don’t think we want that. Gun lovers struggle to understand the denominator problem when puzzling through this. Let me try another way: how many cars being used have you seen today? How many guns being used have you seen today? Get it yet? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/174 "2012-12-14T19:08:24Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Strawman, nobody said anything about perfect safety. **Hentor’s** post is implying it, by suggesting that the only acceptable level of death from guns is zero. Since we accept a non-zero death rate for pretty much every other activity and object in our society, why should firearms deaths be seen any differently? (Frankly, I think if we want to reduce these sorts of spree killings we need to make it a lot easier to commit people to a mental institution against their will. In retrospect most of these perpetrators turn out to have a history that shows them to be non-too-stable before their attacks. But that approach opens up another big can of worms. We liberalized our commitment laws for a reason.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/175 "2012-12-14T19:09:42Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Strangle them, no. Stab them, yes. Or bomb the school. It’s a little too soon to be “Colberting” a story like this, don’t you think? I’m sure reasonable gun rights advocates won’t be using silly arguments like that. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/176 "2012-12-14T19:15:56Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > **Hentor’s** post is implying it, by suggesting that the only acceptable level of death from guns is zero. Maybe we can find a compromise between “zero” and “a number that includes 18 elementary school children sitting in their classroom.” ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/177 "2012-12-14T19:17:59Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > **Hentor’s** post is implying it, by suggesting that the only acceptable level of death from guns is zero. Since we accept a non-zero death rate for pretty much every other activity and object in our society, why should firearms deaths be seen any differently? > > (Frankly, I think if we want to reduce these sorts of spree killings we need to make it a lot easier to commit people to a mental institution against their will. In retrospect most of these perpetrators turn out to have a history that shows them to be non-too-stable before their attacks. But that approach opens up another big can of worms. We liberalized our commitment laws for a reason.) You need to learn the difference between imply and infer. ---
**Author:** ![Miltonyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Miltonyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miltonyz)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/178 "2012-12-14T19:26:18Z")
I didnt see on the news that the shooter had a CCW permit. Did I miss that part? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/179 "2012-12-14T19:44:00Z")
> [@Miltonyz](#): > > I didnt see on the news that the shooter had a CCW permit. Did I miss that part? I think he shot the victims. I don’t think he bludgoened them with a permit. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757/180 "2012-12-14T19:49:31Z")
> [@Miltonyz](#): > > I didnt see on the news that the shooter had a CCW permit. Did I miss that part? I didn’t see on the news what his hair color was. Can we now assume he was bald? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-those-in-favor-of-greater-gun-control-opposed-to-concealed-carry-licenses/643757.md?page=10)