# Why are tree's so young? (relatively speaking) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506 "2013-05-28T00:54:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/41 "2013-05-28T17:20:40Z")
Very small amounts of climate change, which are perceptible over a period of only a couple hundred years, can have a serious effect on both the tree and the competing species around it. A tree living over a couple centuries would need to have been able to adapt to those changes, plus endure any other isolated event such as a forest fire or disease or human environmental alterations. ---
**Author:** ![Enilno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@Enilno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enilno)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/42 "2013-05-28T18:08:31Z")
Depends what you define as an individual organism, but there are some clonal colonies, like this one of [quaking aspen,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_%28tree%29) that are very old. 80,000 years in this case. Sure, there isn’t any part of it that is anywhere near that old, but then no living part in any tree is very old. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/43 "2013-05-29T17:11:11Z")
While there’s lots of talk here about the long-lived tree varieties, I thought I’d offer up an example of a pretty short-lived one: [Red Alder](http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library/documents/treebook/redalder.htm). The site says 40 to 60 years is the expected life span. A lot of people up here call them the “weeds of the forest” because they spring up quickly (especially in disturbed/cleared areas) and then die off in a time span that even humans can appreciate. From the ones behind my house, I can tell you that plenty of them don’t even hit 30 years old. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/44 "2013-05-29T17:54:58Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Yes, typically an old tree grows too weak for its size, falls over, and is consumed by other organisms, particularly by fungi. > [@Blake](#): > > That’s exactly right. From a genetic viewpoint trees are immortal. All cells are totipotent, essentially nascent germ cells. They can’t die due to genetic aging. > > Trees have a finite lifespan because they have to grow continuously. As the old conductive vessels become non-functional, the tree has to produce a new layer just under the bark. But because the tissue can \*only \*be produced just under the bark, the tree has to increase in circumference every year. > > The absolute limit to how big a tree is how long it can sustain that diameter increase. At some point the girth of tree gets so big that the amount of energy needed to lay down just a single layer of conducting cells 1/10th of a millimeter thick is greater than the amount of energy the leaves can provide. At that point the tree starts to die. It might take centuries from that point of senescence to death, but once started it is inevitable. > > In practical terms, death occurs at far smaller sizes than the theoretical limit because as the layers of new growth become increasingly thinner, the conductive system becomes increasingly inefficient. At some point, there just aren’t enough layers of cells being added to allow the tree to effectively transport water. > > Many tree species circumvent that limitation by reproducing new new shoot from the old root system, but that’s really just asexual reproduction, not immortality. **Giles** ’ post, and **Blake** ’s elaborations (for which I thank you both), made me think sharper on cell death and organism death. It seems odd to me that the prime (?) reason for an organism to shuffle off is unstoppable growing. Which is different from a single cell going pathological from cancer. What other species has that factor? It seems that for metabolic and physical reasons, size proportioning is the vast norm decided upon by nature. The old “elephants would catch fire, crumple its bones, not be able to sustain circulation” thing if they keep scaling up. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/45 "2013-05-29T18:08:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Bristlecone pines beat sequoias… Sadly the Bristlecones are now [threatened](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/science/28pines.html?pagewanted=all)by white pine blister rust and beetles that have moved to higher elevations as the temperature rises. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/46 "2013-05-29T22:07:30Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > Sadly the Bristlecones are now [threatened](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/science/28pines.html?pagewanted=all)by white pine blister rust and beetles that have moved to higher elevations as the temperature rises. That’s bad news because a lot of their longevity is due to the fact that they grow at altitudes that are inhospitable to insects and things that would kill them. But the article I linked to a few posts up says they’re finding bristlecone saplings higher than ever, so maybe they can escape their new problems. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/47 "2013-05-29T22:16:15Z")
How do you know the earth is billions of years old? Do you believe everything you hear? Every radiometric dating method is based on inherent assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/48 "2013-05-29T22:32:32Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > How do you know the earth is billions of years old? Do you believe everything you hear? > > Every radiometric dating method is based on inherent assumptions. So, how old is the Earth, Mr. Smarty Pants? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/49 "2013-05-29T22:38:25Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > So, how old is the Earth, Mr. Smarty Pants? My statement speaks for itself. Its up to the people that support deep time to provide evidence supporting their claims, which are tax-funded and in the curriculum of the public schools. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/50 "2013-05-29T22:42:13Z")
Sounds like a good subject for an entirely different thread ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/51 "2013-05-29T22:47:16Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Sounds like a good subject for an entirely different thread I tried that: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658167&highlight=jesus+illuminati](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658167&highlight=jesus+illuminati) Lets just say this site turned out to be extremely biased. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/52 "2013-05-29T22:49:40Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > I tried that: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658167&highlight=jesus+illuminati](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658167&highlight=jesus+illuminati) > > Lets just say this site turned out to be extremely biased. But you’re back for more anyway, huh? That’s the spirit! Jolly good show! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506/53 "2013-05-29T23:58:08Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > How do you know the earth is billions of years old? Do you believe everything you hear? > > Every radiometric dating method is based on inherent assumptions. > [@reef\_shark](#): > > My statement speaks for itself. Its up to the people that support deep time to provide evidence supporting their claims, which are tax-funded and in the curriculum of the public schools. > [@reef\_shark](#): > > I tried that: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658167&highlight=jesus+illuminati](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658167&highlight=jesus+illuminati) > > Lets just say this site turned out to be extremely biased. **MODERATOR NOTE**. **reef shark**. You’re derailing the thread. Stop it. No warning issued. **samclem** , moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-trees-so-young-relatively-speaking/659506.md?page=2)