# Why are we afraid of death?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 23, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433 "2010-05-23T03:39:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/101 "2010-06-01T10:41:26Z")
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> Children are not afraid of spider or snakes, but are taught to be.
Are you sure about that? An aversion to spiders or snakes would be a handy survival trait in the jungles where we all originated.
---
### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/102 "2010-06-01T12:13:10Z")
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> You don’t really need your brain to be alive. You do need your brain and body to live in the physical world, but not the spiritual world. Helping others is good, a reason/purpose for living. Committing suicide doesn’t end life, nor does it end emotional/mental pain. Knowledge does end pain, knowledge and love.
That is your belief and I respect that, life is a passed on thing, and one can return to part of existence as the body decays, as they were before the atoms etc. became human through their parents.
The life of a plant or any animal goes somewhere(perhaps) I do not know, but I think we were born because our parents had relations on a certain day and time and we are that result.
As for an after life as the same being we are there is no proof, just hope that there is. Since there is no proof of any human returning from brain death I accept the fact that a human’s life ends at that time. We have no real proof that there is a spiritual part of us. If it helps one to accept their death or the death of a loved one I respect their right to believe it, but belief is not fact, and because a person has what they call a “near Death” experience I think it is just a ‘near’ death experience and the brain is still registering like a dream. To each his own!!
I know a lot of people in my 80 years of existence that knowledge or love didn’t end their pain, but proper medications were a help.
---
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/103 "2010-06-01T12:47:27Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#):
>
> No we don’t have hellfire preachers in the U.K. plus I didn’t believe in god as a kid.
>
> I think that the thought that there was an afterlife would make me LESS afraid of dying.
>
> I believe that fear of death is an inherent survival trait.
>
> Otherwise even as children we’d wander under the nearest bus or over any cliffs in the vicinity without being concerned.
Small children will wander under the nearest or run over any cliff, until they are taught the dangers of such activities. Babies are afraid of nothing. Because they have yet to be taught what to fear and what not to fear, whether it is rational or not depends on the teacher. Everyone must examine their own lives.
---
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/104 "2010-06-01T12:49:55Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#):
>
> Are you sure about that? An aversion to spiders or snakes would be a handy survival trait in the jungles where we all originated.
I don’t think we originated in jungles. But children must be taught to fear before they are capable of it. Mother says, stop that, don’t touch that, don’t wander into the street, it is dangerous and you could get hurt.
---
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/105 "2010-06-01T12:57:49Z")
> [@monavis](#):
>
> That is your belief and I respect that, life is a passed on thing, and one can return to part of existence as the body decays, as they were before the atoms etc. became human through their parents.
>
> The life of a plant or any animal goes somewhere(perhaps) I do not know, but I think we were born because our parents had relations on a certain day and time and we are that result.
>
> As for an after life as the same being we are there is no proof, just hope that there is. Since there is no proof of any human returning from brain death I accept the fact that a human’s life ends at that time. We have no real proof that there is a spiritual part of us. If it helps one to accept their death or the death of a loved one I respect their right to believe it, but belief is not fact, and because a person has what they call a “near Death” experience I think it is just a ‘near’ death experience and the brain is still registering like a dream. To each his own!!
>
> I know a lot of people in my 80 years of existence that knowledge or love didn’t end their pain, but proper medications were a help.
Then they never obtained the right knowledge or learned that it just don’t matter how many people love you, or don’t love you, it is the love you give to others that matters, and the more you give the happier and healther you become.
We do have the evidence now, that life continues after death. It is sure and solid.
I will leave two links that I just discovered yesterday.
Listen carefully to the first one and you will learn about “God.”
Then read the second one and find all the evidence one needs to believe in the afterlife.
[http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/06/awakening-experience-of-james-gilliland/](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/06/awakening-experience-of-james-gilliland/)
[http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/05/consciousness-beyond-life/](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/05/consciousness-beyond-life/)
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/106 "2010-06-01T14:42:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> [http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/06/awakening-experience-of-james-gilliland/](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/06/awakening-experience-of-james-gilliland/)
>
> [http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/05/consciousness-beyond-life/](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/05/consciousness-beyond-life/)
More anecdotes. Do you have a direct links to a single double-blind scientific study that supports your “facts”?
---
### Author:  [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/107 "2010-06-01T18:19:45Z")
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> I don’t have a belief, I have a knowing through experience. Now I can’t imagine how a person might not fear the idea of non-existance. If they are a materialist, one who believes only in material things, then they get attached to material things. Most don’t want the world to stop for them. They would have to give up what they loved the most. I can imagine a materialist that is depressed, suicidal, and hates themselves and their life not to fear, but desire death. I am looking forward to crossing over, but have no desire to hurry the process. So the answer is no, I can’t imagine a happy materialist not fearing death and the loss of everything he cares for. When I die I will be with all the people I have loved during my life, but the materialist will lose all that, so why would he not fear death.
Do you fear having to pay taxes? Probably not, I suspect - though you probably don’t _want_ to pay them either. Oh dear, an impossible contradiction!
Fear isn’t a catchall word for all types of dislike or avoidance or the reasons therefore. Fear is _fear_. And it’s pretty easy not to fear oblivion - once you cease to exist you’ll have no problems! It’s like heaven, only without the boredom and makework. Eternal dreamless sleep from which you never wake.
Personally I avoid death for only two reasons - it would make other people unhappy (which I wouldn’t mind afterwards, but the idea of which deters me now), and the road to death usually involves pain. If I find myself in a circumstance where these are no longer an issue (which likely wouldn’t happen until I’m pretty old and able to die naturally), then the sleep of death would be a viable and possibly even attractive option.
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> A lot of materialists have told me they wished there was an afterlife, but they are convinced it doesn’t exist and somehow that displeases them.
There are a lot of real problems with all the models of ‘afterlife’ I’ve heard proposed (at best, there’s the boredom issue), but if we pretend there aren’t problems with the idea then I’d like an afterlife, sure. I’d also like a pony. I don’t see much point in _pretending_ I have a pony, though.
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> A lot of materialists are former theists, who have been taught to fear God, Satan, hell, etc., and they become materialists to assuage the fear, by saying there is no God and no afterlife. I think if they really knew through experience as others have had they would no longer be materialists. But that is just my opinion, I can’t know what individuals think about anything.
Why does your starting sentence **say** you know why they’ve become materialists then? Good grief.
Suffice to say, that’s not why any materialist I know has become a materialist. Usually it’s because they’ve looked behind the curtain and seen the man there, simple as that.
---
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/108 "2010-06-01T18:58:14Z")
> [@begbert2](#):
>
> Do you fear having to pay taxes? Probably not, I suspect - though you probably don’t _want_ to pay them either. Oh dear, an impossible contradiction!
>
> Fear isn’t a catchall word for all types of dislike or avoidance or the reasons therefore. Fear is _fear_. And it’s pretty easy not to fear oblivion - once you cease to exist you’ll have no problems! It’s like heaven, only without the boredom and makework. Eternal dreamless sleep from which you never wake.
>
> Personally I avoid death for only two reasons - it would make other people unhappy (which I wouldn’t mind afterwards, but the idea of which deters me now), and the road to death usually involves pain. If I find myself in a circumstance where these are no longer an issue (which likely wouldn’t happen until I’m pretty old and able to die naturally), then the sleep of death would be a viable and possibly even attractive option.
>
> There are a lot of real problems with all the models of ‘afterlife’ I’ve heard proposed (at best, there’s the boredom issue), but if we pretend there aren’t problems with the idea then I’d like an afterlife, sure. I’d also like a pony. I don’t see much point in _pretending_ I have a pony, though.
>
> Why does your starting sentence **say** you know why they’ve become materialists then? Good grief.
>
> Suffice to say, that’s not why any materialist I know has become a materialist. Usually it’s because they’ve looked behind the curtain and seen the man there, simple as that.
I don’t mind paying taxes, just part of life here in the states. The afterlife is anything but boring. There is much to do and to learn. As for seeing behind the curtain, maybe so, I don’t know, but there is no deception in the afterlife.
When the book by van Lommel is published a week from today, it will contain real evidence of the afterlife. I have read his work, he was a surgeon before he became a researcher. He gave up his career to do reseach after seeing the effects of people who died, had a near death experience, and were revived during his surgeries. He is a man of great courage and inner strength, who will present the truth of the phenomenon.
Materialists are losing the debate, because they have no evidence to put forth contrary to the evidence that will be in that book. Materialists have only untestable theories, nothing more. I have collected all the theories put forth by materialists into a link. It is easy to tell from the link these theories are a shotgun approach to a real event without any real evidence at all.
> **[Skeptic Claims about NDEs - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](https://aleroy.com/blog/archives/3021/skeptic-claims-about-ndes)**
>
> I decided to post a list of things that skeptics claim cause near death experiences, or can duplicate a near death experience. These “causes” were taken directly from skeptical articles and writings. In truth, skeptics know very little about near...
The real cause of the experience is:
> **[What Causes a Near-Death Experience - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](https://aleroy.com/blog/archives/3042/what-causes-a-nde)**
>
> What causes a near death experience. We are individual spiritual consciousnesses enjoying a physical life created for the purpose of self learning. Picture yourself standing on the edge of two dimensions. One spiritual and the other physical. If you...
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/109 "2010-06-01T20:00:23Z")
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> Materialists are losing the debate, because they have no evidence to put forth contrary to the evidence that will be in that book. Materialists have only untestable theories, nothing more. I have collected all the theories put forth by materialists into a link. It is easy to tell from the link these theories are a shotgun approach to a real event without any real evidence at all.
>
> [Skeptic Claims about NDEs - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/04/skeptic-claims-about-ndes/)
>
> The real cause of the experience is:
>
> [What Causes a Near-Death Experience - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/04/what-causes-a-nde/)
[You’ve been told many times that you are now allowed to cite anecdotes on your blog as if they were science.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12356780#post12356780) This is not a formal warning, but it’s a reminder not to do it again.
---
### Author:  [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/110 "2010-06-01T20:34:30Z")
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> I don’t mind paying taxes, just part of life here in the states.
Ignoring the plug for the book -
I don’t mind that I’ll die - just part of life here in the human race. I’d prefer to avoid pain, like I said, and I bet you’d prefer to avoid an invasive audit, but that’s not fear of taxes, that’s fear of the audit.
You don’t fear taxes. I don’t fear death. It’s that simple.
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> The afterlife is anything but boring. There is much to do and to learn. As for seeing behind the curtain, maybe so, I don’t know, but there is no deception in the afterlife.
Yeah, for the _first_ fifteen thousand years. It’s _after_ you’ve done it all and memorized everything that the boredom starts crushing in and gradually driving you insane.
---
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/111 "2010-06-01T20:40:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> [You’ve been told many times that you are now allowed to cite anecdotes on your blog as if they were science.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12356780#post12356780) This is not a formal warning, but it’s a reminder not to do it again.
I specificially said I had compiled these lists. I made no mention that they were science or research. So what’s the problem?
---
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/112 "2010-06-01T20:45:50Z")
> [@begbert2](#):
>
> Ignoring the plug for the book -
>
> I don’t mind that I’ll die - just part of life here in the human race. I’d prefer to avoid pain, like I said, and I bet you’d prefer to avoid an invasive audit, but that’s not fear of taxes, that’s fear of the audit.
>
> You don’t fear taxes. I don’t fear death. It’s that simple.
> Yeah, for the _first_ fifteen thousand years. It’s _after_ you’ve done it all and memorized everything that the boredom starts crushing in and gradually driving you insane.
I don’t fear death or taxes, I don’t pay much tax, since I am retired. In the spirit world there is no time or space, and you have the whole universe to play in. Then when you get advanced you can help create your own universes. I have never talked to a spirit that said they were bored. But think as you want.
There are unknown frontiers to explore also.
---
### Author:  [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/113 "2010-06-01T20:53:54Z")
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> I don’t fear death or taxes, I don’t pay much tax, since I am retired. In the spirit world there is no time or space, and you have the whole universe to play in. Then when you get advanced you can help create your own universes. I have never talked to a spirit that said they were bored. But think as you want.
>
> There are unknown frontiers to explore also.
I have never talked to a spirit that said they were bored either, so we have that in common. In fact you’re probably a lot more like me in this respect than you think you are. 😉
Back to the actual topic of the thread - We have established that you don’t fear taxes, despite them being inarguably at least somewhat undesirable and as inevitable as death and taxes. Can you comprehend that I would be similarly unfearful of the state of being dead, despite my awareness that it is the end?
---
### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/114 "2010-06-02T01:04:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> Then they never obtained the right knowledge or learned that it just don’t matter how many people love you, or don’t love you, it is the love you give to others that matters, and the more you give the happier and healther you become.
>
> We do have the evidence now, that life continues after death. It is sure and solid.
> I will leave two links that I just discovered yesterday.
>
> Listen carefully to the first one and you will learn about “God.”
> Then read the second one and find all the evidence one needs to believe in the afterlife.
> [http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/06/awakening-experience-of-james-gilliland/](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/06/awakening-experience-of-james-gilliland/)
>
> [http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/05/consciousness-beyond-life/](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/05/consciousness-beyond-life/)
It, like the Bible etc. Is the words of some human, so has no impression on me. It is believing the persons not any God! The bones of animals, like humans, remain long after the animal or person’s death, no proof of humans living in another way. According to Genesis the punishment for sin was death…nothing about a soul or other life. Were that so, death should be desired and one who would kill another would be considered a hero for helping someone to a better life! You are intitled to your beliefs but that is not fact! Because I or anyone said so doesn’t make it such.
---
### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/115 "2010-06-02T01:08:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> I don’t mind paying taxes, just part of life here in the states. The afterlife is anything but boring. There is much to do and to learn. As for seeing behind the curtain, maybe so, I don’t know, but there is no deception in the afterlife.
>
> When the book by van Lommel is published a week from today, it will contain real evidence of the afterlife. I have read his work, he was a surgeon before he became a researcher. He gave up his career to do reseach after seeing the effects of people who died, had a near death experience, and were revived during his surgeries. He is a man of great courage and inner strength, who will present the truth of the phenomenon.
>
> Materialists are losing the debate, because they have no evidence to put forth contrary to the evidence that will be in that book. Materialists have only untestable theories, nothing more. I have collected all the theories put forth by materialists into a link. It is easy to tell from the link these theories are a shotgun approach to a real event without any real evidence at all.
>
> [Skeptic Claims about NDEs - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/04/skeptic-claims-about-ndes/)
>
> The real cause of the experience is:
>
> [What Causes a Near-Death Experience - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/04/what-causes-a-nde/)
Notice you say van Lommel say’s “near death” there is a big deference between near and actual brain dead, when all organs shut down and there is no hope for revival.
---
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2010, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/116 "2010-06-02T11:55:41Z")
> [@monavis](#):
>
> Notice you say van Lommel say’s “near death” there is a big deference between near and actual brain dead, when all organs shut down and there is no hope for revival.
Notice that we call a weiner and a bun a hot dog. But it has nothing to do with a hot dog.
Labels are not important, it is the event that counts.
---
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/117 "2010-06-02T11:57:27Z")
> [@monavis](#):
>
> It, like the Bible etc. Is the words of some human, so has no impression on me. It is believing the persons not any God! The bones of animals, like humans, remain long after the animal or person’s death, no proof of humans living in another way. According to Genesis the punishment for sin was death…nothing about a soul or other life. Were that so, death should be desired and one who would kill another would be considered a hero for helping someone to a better life! You are intitled to your beliefs but that is not fact! Because I or anyone said so doesn’t make it such.
Just read the book and learn.
---
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/118 "2010-06-02T12:07:06Z")
> [@begbert2](#):
>
> I have never talked to a spirit that said they were bored either, so we have that in common. In fact you’re probably a lot more like me in this respect than you think you are. 😉
>
> Back to the actual topic of the thread - We have established that you don’t fear taxes, despite them being inarguably at least somewhat undesirable and as inevitable as death and taxes. Can you comprehend that I would be similarly unfearful of the state of being dead, despite my awareness that it is the end?
I don’t think we are much alike at all.
Yes, I can understand how the thought of nihilism could be comforting to some.
Fredrick Nietzche remarked more than once “I get through many a bad night with the thought of suicide.”
---
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/119 "2010-06-02T12:20:26Z")
> [@lekatt](#):
>
> I specificially said I had compiled these lists. I made no mention that they were science or research. So what’s the problem?
It’s just a reminder in advance as this debate continues.
---
### Author:  [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-afraid-of-death/540433/120 "2010-06-02T17:16:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> It’s just a reminder in advance as this debate continues.
Pim van Lommel’s book is due to be published next Tuesday, it has already sold 125,000 copies in Europe. You will get all the science and scientific research you want from it concerning death and near death experiences.
Actually you can read it now on the Internet at
[http://browseinside.harpercollins.com/index.aspx?isbn13=9780061777257](http://browseinside.harpercollins.com/index.aspx?isbn13=9780061777257)
But I believe everyone will want their own copy.
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