# Why are we alive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2012, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931 "2012-05-24T08:59:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/141 "2012-06-11T04:07:59Z")
Life exists because life exists. And after time only life that engaged in behavior that resulted in more life survived, so now all life is fundamentally designed to engage in behavior that is life affirming or life giving. We are alive because we are designed to be alive. Its a big circle jerk, but it beats the alternative (at least most days it does). ---
**Author:** ![thepillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@thepillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thepillar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/142 "2012-06-11T06:39:02Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > What exactly is the “law of ideas?” I’ve never heard of it… > [@Irishman](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean by “the law of ideas”. Humans are congnitive beings. We think. Humans take actions based upon their surroundings and what they wish to accomplish. In other words, humans have intent, and those intentions shape what they do. > > To a lesser extent, animals are also aware and are therefore beings of intent. Obviously a housefly’s cognition is much less than a person’s, so their level of intent is at a much lower level. > > There does not appear to be any indications that the universe itself has cognition, and therefore is a being of intent. Show me where the universe changes in response to stimuli, makes a deliberate choice rather than rolls along a prescribed path. A human being is born endowed with an internal abstract system for causing action either in the form of an enactment of a particular procedure or the production, out of matter provided by the universe, of implements for the fulfillment of specific purposes. Thus, the whole process leading up to action essentially involves, in this particular order: (1) The conception of an idea or problem, in an abstract realm, the realm also acting as a pool, framework and source for various other ideas that have already been conceived and those that are of yet to be; (2) The creation of alternative solutions by drawing upon and combining other different ideas or by expanding the idea with other coherent ideas already preconceived or newly formulated thereupon, from and within this pool of ideas, respectively. (3) Transforming the idea and its consequent solutions or thesis, within this same abstract realm, into a graphical model;(this part of the sequence does not necessarily apply to some phenomena such as the production of sound, excepting those gifted in the art of deciphering the language and symbols of sound) (4) Finally, in the terrestrial world, the idea finds expression either as action or a sequential pattern of actions making use of matter supplied by the universe to create products or further still, more patterns of action. This process is driven and thus determined by the degree or strength of the _will power_ attached to any particular idea; the 4th and last component of the whole process may not be realized if an insufficient degree of will power is exerted. But what is will power? Can you show me a specific degree of will power? You can’t show it to me because it exists in an abstract intangible realm, albeit, this is _the_ determining factor for the production of thought and action in the terrestrial realm; without ideas and will there’s no action, and thus ideas and will or intent are the primary cause for action, the consummation of which is but a terrestrial manifestation of these abstract concepts. Action by humans is thus caused by abstractions, viz. ideas and will power. Since the absence of these abstractions produces no action, action, then, is but the manifest expression of intent; the perceptible and measurable vehicle, as it were, through which ideas and intent ultimately assume a particular form and pattern. Such is the law of ideas, as perceived by all, operating in humans and to a lower degree, in mammals. Humans, nor animals, did not create this law but are merely subject to it. It is this law that is the very essence of the universe because it applies to all objective phenomena in the universe. And just like the scientist uses inductive logic and certain laws based on observable facts to accurately estimate the distance between earth and the sun, we too can apply inductive logic and the law of ideas observed in humans and animals to accurately ascertain the general abstract and thus conscious nature of the entire universe, for consciousness is primarily an abstraction. On a terrestrial level, a human can have an idea to do some laundry. Only when these ideas are, expressly or otherwise made known, can others apprehend with a great deal of accuracy the intentions and ideas of that particular individual. On the other hand, most of the ideas and intentions harbored by animals, having a different degree of consciousness than humans, are oblivious to our senses. The little that we understand of their intentions and ideas is from the observations of completed actions. For instance, only when an animal has finished constructing a shelter or nest can we finally figure out its intentions and ideas, both prior to the completion and to a certain extent, afterwards. The animal, with its lower degree of consciousness, will in most cases not have the capability to comprehend most of the ideas and intentions residing and active in the minds of humanity. On a cosmic level, this same law of ideas also applies. The activity and motion of the universe is the result of abstract concepts, viz., ideas and will power, just like in humans and animals. And just like in animals, humans, having a hopelessly lower degree of consciousness than that of the universe-or lacking the ability to conceive abstract concepts of a cosmic nature-, are inhibited from interpreting, let alone understanding, the _ideas and intentions_ behind the actions of the universe. That it is in motion is there for all to see, but the ideas and intent driving this motion, we are unable to fathom. However, in as much as the animal’s inability to understand the ideas and intentions of human beings, in their totality both in scope and quality, is not proof that those ideas don’t _actually_ exist, so too is it with our inability to comprehend the abstract concepts moving the universe. > [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean by “personal”. I assume that if a purpose for life exists, it would apply to everyone. Can you give an example of what you have in mind? Say, in order to fulfill the purpose, an individual had to think about the letter A every morning. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/143 "2012-06-11T12:43:20Z")
Is this “Law of Ideas” something you came up with on your own? ---
**Author:** ![thepillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@thepillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thepillar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/144 "2012-06-11T13:01:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is this “Law of Ideas” something you came up with on your own? Nope; its based on ancient philosophic systems that I’ve simply oversimplified and personally coined for the sake of understandability. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/145 "2012-06-11T13:20:53Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > Nope; its based on ancient philosophic systems that I’ve simply oversimplified and personally coined for the sake of understandability. In other words, yes, you came up with it on your own. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/146 "2012-06-11T16:03:28Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > Such is the law of ideas, as perceived by all, operating in humans and to a lower degree, in mammals. Humans, nor animals, did not create this law but are merely subject to it. It is this law that is the very essence of the universe because it applies to all objective phenomena in the universe. Not demonstrated. > [@](#): > > On a cosmic level, this same law of ideas also applies. The activity and motion of the universe is the result of abstract concepts, viz., ideas and will power, just like in humans and animals. Not demonstrated. ---
**Author:** ![seaturtle99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@seaturtle99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seaturtle99)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/147 "2012-06-11T20:31:28Z")
> [@Lightlystarched](#): > > Actually, we are just the vehicles created by our masters, the bacteria. I think that you will find that our true masters areabove bacteria on the hierarchical ladder. It is Funghi that rule the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/148 "2012-06-11T22:09:48Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > A human being is born endowed with an internal abstract system for causing action either in the form of an enactment of a particular procedure or the production, out of matter provided by the universe, of implements for the fulfillment of specific purposes. Thus, the whole process leading up to action essentially involves, in this particular order: > > (1) The conception of an idea or problem, in an abstract realm, the realm also acting as a pool, framework and source for various other ideas that have already been conceived and those that are of yet to be; . . . I note two interesting exceptions: 1. Natural evolution, where differential survivability drives remarkably “inventive” structures and processes, such as the spider’s web, the elephant’s trunk, and so on. 2. Accidental invention and inspiration. It is widely suggested that mankind first mastered the use of fire after finding it in the wild, in the wake of a lightning strike or other natural open flame. Mankind probably never sat down and said to himself, “I can envision a form of energy that will keep me warm at night and also cook my food. Now, let me go about producing it.” Many of our “inventions” may have come about by accident. The first spear was, most likely, just a broken branch, a bit straighter and a bit sharper than most other broken branches. Even today, a great deal of our high-tech inventiveness comes about by non-deliberate creativity. I think your chain of ideas is an ideal, but I think it is bypassed, in part at least, in more cases than cases when it is followed. ---
**Author:** ![thepillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@thepillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thepillar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/149 "2012-06-12T07:05:59Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Not demonstrated. [http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/12/128709841287362974.jpg](http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/12/128709841287362974.jpg) > [@Trinopus](#): > > I note two interesting exceptions: > > 1. Natural evolution, where differential survivability drives remarkably “inventive” structures and processes, such as the spider’s web, the elephant’s trunk, and so on. You’re separating natural phenomena from the universal law of ideas, and then calling it, “natural” evolution. The structure of an elephant’s trunk and the spider’s web are part and parcel of the law of ideas. The physiological structure assumed by every human being is not “natural” evolution. It’s all part of this law of ideas, nothing is exclusive of it. > [@](#): > > 1. Accidental invention and inspiration. It is widely suggested that mankind first mastered the use of fire after finding it in the wild, in the wake of a lightning strike or other natural open flame. Mankind probably never sat down and said to himself, “I can envision a form of energy that will keep me warm at night and also cook my food. Now, let me go about producing it.” > > Many of our “inventions” may have come about by accident. The first spear was, most likely, just a broken branch, a bit straighter and a bit sharper than most other broken branches. > > Even today, a great deal of our high-tech inventiveness comes about by non-deliberate creativity. > > I think your chain of ideas is an ideal, but I think it is bypassed, in part at least, in more cases than cases when it is followed. You’re describing the sub-conscious realm. Do you think about your dreams beforehand or do they just “naturally” occur? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/150 "2012-06-12T10:50:41Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > [http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/12/128709841287362974.jpg](http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/12/128709841287362974.jpg) Still not demonstrated. ---
**Author:** ![thepillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@thepillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thepillar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/151 "2012-06-12T11:16:56Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Still not demonstrated. What would constitute a reasonable demonstration? (from your point of view) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/152 "2012-06-12T11:44:50Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > So let me get this straight; according to your theory, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only **within** the universe. Before the ‘big bang’, there was no universe and hence no energy. This ‘big bang’ thus wasn’t caused by a pre-existent energy but by happenstance-“shit happened”. This energy was only created when the universe came into being after the ‘big bang’. > This “philosophical framework” lacks any sense of logic and reason, and thus is absent of any substance of truth. Scientifically speaking, an explosion cannot occur without a pre-existent trigger in the form of energy. Energy is the primary cause of an explosion. If you can demonstrate that an explosion or some ‘big bang’ can occur without a prerequisite application and existence of energy, then by all means please do so. You’ve no idea what you are talking about. It is not necessary for things to have causes, the Big Bang was not an explosion, and the big Bang is the _scientific_ theory of how the universe came to be; calling it unscientific because you don’t like it is silly. > [@thepillar](#): > > Beyond and encompassing the Universal Cosmic Consciousness I’m referring to (what you might have meant by God) is the Absolute; and this is where the buck stops. The Absolute is not conscious because it is Absolute Consciousness and since Absolute Consciousness is also Absolute Unconsciousness, the Absolute, embracing both Consciousness and Unconsciousness, is neither, otherwise It would not be Absolute. Nor does it exist (this is the part that the science lot will like:)) since it is also Absolute Existence, and as mentioned above, Absolute Existence is also Absolute Non-existence, thus the Absolute is neither of the two. It just Is (for lack of a better phrasing). It essentially is the root of everything, incessantly ever evolving out of its own essence everything including what we call the universe and “God”. It is the Ever-Becoming, always changing into something else. Meaningless gibberish. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > As for creators, well we can consider evidence on this question. The universe seems to exist. The Big Bang seems to have happened. If the Big Bang had a ‘before’ in which there was nothing, and then suddenly there was everything, we do get into that conservation of energy problem. According to some theories, the universe is just a very large vacuum fluctuation, and its total energy is zero. > [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > And following on **terristephens** ’ post, if the purpose of life were revealed to us tonight, how would that affect your life? I’d ignore it, or quite possibly deliberately go against it. As I’ve said, I don’t _want_ some externally imposed purpose. Tools have purpose, and I don’t _want_ to be a tool; I’m a tool user, I _give_ things purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/153 "2012-06-12T12:34:34Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > . . . You’re separating natural phenomena from the universal law of ideas, and then calling it, “natural” evolution. The structure of an elephant’s trunk and the spider’s web are part and parcel of the law of ideas. The physiological structure assumed by every human being is not “natural” evolution. It’s all part of this law of ideas, nothing is exclusive of it. Who, then, has the idea? > [@](#): > > You’re describing the sub-conscious realm. Do you think about your dreams beforehand or do they just “naturally” occur? No, they just naturally occur. Who thought about the elephant’s trunk before it evolved? Is this a “mind of God” idea? I honestly don’t comprehend what you’re trying to describe. ---
**Author:** ![thepillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@thepillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thepillar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/154 "2012-06-12T12:59:58Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Who, then, has the idea? The universe. > [@](#): > > Who thought about the elephant’s trunk before it evolved? The universe ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/155 "2012-06-12T13:33:25Z")
So, is it your contention that the solar systems are part of a kind of big brain, the universe? But that would be turtles all the way up. Does the universe exist in a (very big) skull. does that skull/body exist in an ever bigger brain? etc… ---
**Author:** ![thepillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@thepillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thepillar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/156 "2012-06-12T14:04:25Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > So, is it your contention that the solar systems are part of a kind of big brain, the universe? > > But that would be turtles all the way up. > Does the universe exist in a (very big) skull. does that skull/body exist in an ever bigger brain? etc.. This is what **Irishman** meant by anthropomorphism; you expect the universe to have a skull, to crack jokes, have eyes and ears, and so on. This is not what I’m hinting at. I’ve already stated that this can’t be the case because of the different circumstances and scale under which the human mind and the universe manifest. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/157 "2012-06-12T14:23:17Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > The universe. What is the difference between this and “nothing” as an answer? They seem equivalent in every way. ---
**Author:** ![thepillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@thepillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thepillar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/158 "2012-06-12T14:32:01Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > What is the difference between this and “nothing” as an answer? They seem equivalent in every way. > [@thepillar](#): > > What would constitute a reasonable demonstration? (from your point of view) 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/159 "2012-06-12T15:37:41Z")
Your link to an image demonstrated nothing; you can find superficial similarities in many structures in nature. Unless you were trying to demonstrate that “complex things are sometimes complex in similar ways” you didn’t advance your hypothesis. Basically you’re saying God == the Universe == the Sum of all Natural Laws but frankly, there’s nothing to that. It’s all just naval gazing. It doesn’t produce anything to distinguish from it from saying that an Invisible Pink Unicorn made up everything. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931/160 "2012-06-12T23:13:04Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > Say, in order to fulfill the purpose, an individual had to think about the letter A every morning. What would happen then? Does he connect with a universal conscience, or the law of ideas? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-alive/622931.md?page=9)