Why are we Americans so uncomfortable with things that are natural for our bodies?

[Dogface]

“If I liked tapioca, that would be horrible, because then I would eat it.” This is the underlying premise of the vast majority of social taboos. And should anybody dare question these irrational taboos, then said taboos are “defended” by the irrational and knee-jerk response of presuming that one must immediately embrace the utter opposite if one does not embrace the irrational taboos and conventions.

There is a general undercurrent of hostility towards and hatred of the human body in US culture. Look at our “beauty” ideals. They are not real human beings. They are prodded and surgically altered inhuman, plastic things.

[Avumede]

Well, Dogface, I think you have an excellent point there. But not all taboos are irrational. Take the incest taboo for example, which your logic above clearly applies to. But, for other reasons, it is indeed rational.

[handsomeharry]

i think that the whole point of all of the cleanliness aspect is being overlooked. it’s the connotation of stink equals hygiene. the concept that if something smells repulsive it must be bad. kind of like wiping after we go to the bathroom. sure, it may smell good to europeans and other cultures, and i don’t see how the expulsion of wastes can be considered anything but natural, but the association with hepatitis is too strong for americans to overcome.
i think that breastfeeding in public is not frowned upon, just doing it uncovered.

[rowrrbazzle]

Cecil on Who decided women should shave their legs and underarms?

[Lizard]

*Originally posted by Avumede *
** But not all taboos are irrational. Take the incest taboo for example, which your logic above clearly applies to. But, for other reasons, it is indeed rational. **

Whoa. Lets not get into sexual taboos. We’ll be arguing all year.

[Cavalier]

*Originally posted by friedo *
In many countries in Africa and elsewhere, women suffer from forced genital mutilation because of societal pressure.

If it’s because of societal pressure, they aren’t being forced. If it’s because of societal prssure it’s like steroid use, or breast enlargement, a voluntary, if self-destuctive, activity.

If it’s forced it’s more like another strange American custom, circumcision of little boys.

msmith537:
It’s natural to shit on the ground too but we still use a toilett

Not all of us.

[j.c]

“For a while in the late 20th cent., most babies were not breast fed.” I think the decline in breastfeeding had to do with the invention of good formula. Many many women do not like the demands of breastfeeding and do out of sense of duty.

Ever hear of a wet nurse? why do you think a “nurse” is called a “nurse”? Cuz the original duty was that very verb.

I’m sure the same 20th century housewives and working moms who made infant formula a growth market would have been glad to have wet nurses if they could have.

Handsomeharry - “the concept that if something smells repulsive it must be bad” is a pretty sound one. Although Europe, like the rest of the world, may have a few perves who enjoy the stink, it’s generally something to be avoided. Do you know why some cultures cut off a hand as punishment? Because that forces the criminal to eat and wipe with the same hand, and ensures that everyone will know that’s what the criminal has to do.

Lissa - most early douche ads were selling the hope of morning (or few minutes) after birth control. When pantyhose came along in the late 50s, legions of women did, indeed smell bad, because the panty hose, like thongs today, were not exactly healthy. Thus science gave us the cotton-crotch. If you take a quick browse through Dear Abby-type columns, you’ll find that a common question is “my friend has B.O, should I tell?”

I’d agree that advertisers exploit our desire to fit in with the herd, but I’m not sure how many advertisers were around to sell hair bleach to the ancient Greeks and Egyptians, or diet advice to Medici gals and their social class, or… well, there’s a long list of people doing seemingly crazy things in order to be fashionable.

And what owlofcreamcheese said.

[auRa]

originally posted by SnoopyFan
**I ask because in high school I made friends with the Finnish exchange student. Rumors went around that she bathed about once to twice a week … I never noticed any bad smell coming off of her so she either adapted while in America (or the rumor wasn’t true to begin with) or she covered it up with something. **

I’m a Finn, and I shower every day. Most Finns I know shower every day. In fact, most people I know, regardless of ethnic origin, shower every day. I’m surprised to hear that the stereotype of “bad-smelling European” applies also to us. (Then again, I was surprised of being called “Eurotrash” while in Texas, so I might not be the ultimate authority here.)

originally posted by handsomeharry
[. . .]kind of like wiping after we go to the bathroom. sure, it may smell good to europeans and other cultures, [. . .]

Upon what do you base the assumption that “Europeans and other cultures” enjoy the smell of human excrement more than Americans do?

[smiling_bandit]

“Eurotrash” can theoretically apply to any European, except for the Irish and maybe the Spanish.

“No-bathing European” stereotype (true or false) usually applies only to continental types, anf the Finns are a bit far north for that. IIRC, usually its applied to the central countries of France, Germany, etc.

No, I don’t kow why, and I’m not all that up on my European bathing habits. I do know that when I went over bathing is a pain-and-a-half. The hostels I stay at usually have a 30-second timer on the shower!

[One_And_Only_Wanderers]

slight thread hijack but what exempts the Irish and the Spanish from a label that can apply to the rest of Europe??

[scm1001]

In england bathing was unusual because until the 50s many places did not even have central hot water - everything had to be boiled in kettles. Showers were also unusual until the 70 s. See how many baths you would have a week if you had to fill it up one kettle at a time. Clothes were not changed that often as again washing-drying facilities were not great - so again why bother having a bath if you put back on your old clothes?

However nowdays showering every 1-2 days is the norm

[ElJeffe]

Just to apply my own anecdotes to the mix:

I’ve worked with a number of European exchange students. The German I knew was fairly hygenic (ie, he didn’t smell). The Italian smelled like a delightful mix of cigarettes and BO, with an undercurrent of horrendous breath. The Russian woman smelled like BO masked by several gallons of perfume. And although they’re not European, the Japanese have more often than not had horrible breath. Brits have generally been on par with Americans - little BO, little bad breath.

Then there’s the French guy who roomed with me. Dear God, he smelled. He showered occasionally, but never used deoderant of any sort, and he freakin’ reeked. It was enough to keep me awake at night.

Like I said, just some anecdotes. Take them for what you will. I’ve never travelled to Europe, so I can’t give any impressions on Europeans as a whole.

As far as taboos in general, most of them have some rational origins. Shaved legs feel nicer on women than hairy legs. In general, women who are “sleek” are sexier. Why? I dunno. It makes them seem cleaner, more pure than men. Baldness on men? Hair is associated with youth and virility. Men with hair seem healthier, thus more likely to be able to procreate, thus more desireable. Natural selection at work. Ditto with thin, fit women, and muscular men. Not emaciatedly thin, or absurdly muscular, though - that just seems freakish (and most people I know are not attracted to either of those extremes). As was mentioned before, we like people who smell nice. BO indicates a lack of cleanliness, whether real or imagined. Yeah, some people can be clean and still reek, but with smell alone, it’s difficult to tell the difference between someone clean but still stinky, and someone who’s just dirty. Thus, we wear deoderant, to serve as the great equalizer between the stinky and the nonstinky. And for those who still sweat a lot (and face it, sweaty armpits feel nasty), we have anti-persperants, too.

Anyway, I think most have taboos have some rational at their roots, even if they’re taken to their (il)logical extremes.
Jeff

[ElJeffe]

Whoops. That last sentence should read:

Anyway, I think most taboos have some rationale at their roots, even if they’re taken to their (il)logical extremes.

Jeff

[Lissa]

*Originally posted by j.c. *
**Lissa - most early douche ads were selling the hope of morning (or few minutes) after birth control. When pantyhose came along in the late 50s, legions of women did, indeed smell bad, because the panty hose, like thongs today, were not exactly healthy. Thus science gave us the cotton-crotch. If you take a quick browse through Dear Abby-type columns, you’ll find that a common question is “my friend has B.O, should I tell?”

**

Yes, you’re right-- perhaps I should have been clearer.

Actually, during the early years of birth control, Comstock Laws wouldn’t allow douching’s birth-control properties to be mentioned in print. The ads usually touted that the douching device was for married women’s “cleanliness” and to destroy “germs” in the vagina. Word of mouth between women explained the rest.

After douching lost favor as a birth-control device, the product manufacturers had to find another reason to get women to buy it, and they hit the goldmine by convincing women that they smelled.

Believe it or not, Lysol was sold as a douche at one time. (We have a bottle in my museum which lists instructions on how to use it as such.) Unfortunately, many women were horribly burned. They figured that if a little Lysol would kill sperm, diluting it less would be even more effective. Eventually, the company was forced to stop promoting Lysol as a douche.

[Lizard]

*Originally posted by Lissa *
**
Believe it or not, Lysol was sold as a douche at one time. (We have a bottle in my museum which lists instructions on how to use it as such.) **

What kind of museum do you run, that has an old bottle of Lysol on display?

[Lissa]

*Originally posted by Lizard *
**What kind of museum do you run, that has an old bottle of Lysol on display? **

I didn’t say it was on display.

I found it when we were taking items out of storage for new exhibits.

I actually looked at it because I had read in a book on the struggle for contraceptive information (Andrea Tone’s * Devices and Desires) * about using it as a douche. The bottle was glass, so I read the directions to see if it was one of the early ones. It was. I showed it to my female co-workers, who were shocked.

We also have other contraceptive devices in storage, such as a rubber douching mechanism which has various knobs, tubes and strange ceramic pieces. (It looks extraordinarily complicated.) We also have many advice manuals for “married ladies” which give instructions on “marital hygeine.”

We’re a general history museum. I’m grateful that someone did think to save and donate them-- they’re such fascinating items. Too often, things like these slip through the cracks of history, probably because the donors are embarassed by them.

I’ve tried to talk my curator into an exhibit of our ancient contraceptive devices, information booklets, Comstockery and letters which ladies wrote to one another, sharing tips on birth-control. So far, it’s no-go. Maybe it’s just me, but I think people would be very interested.

[Ray_Walker]

I don’t really like body hair on women at all. It just bothers me. It’s something that I grew up with; that women shouldn’t have excessive body hair. I don’t think that’s necessarily wrong. It’s not like body hair is really needed anymore.

[Johanna]

This is turning into IMHO.

I, au contraire, love hairy natural women. The way they were meant to be. Mrs. M has never shaved her legs in her life, not once. Her leg hair is so fine, silky smooth, and feminine, like a dream. It’s incredibly erotic.

And the treasure trail… ahhh… love it!

[smiling_bandit]

slight thread hijack but what exempts the Irish and the Spanish from a label that can apply to the rest of Europe?

Damned if I know. Its that Eurotrash != Irish. Its a definition thing. Maytbe its because Ireland isn’t and never will be one of the pretentious haute cultur centers of Europe. The French drink wine; the Irish drink beer. For that matter, its rare to find British Eurotrash. As for the Spanish(well, Spanish/Portuguese), I think they tend to get lumped in with their linguistic brothers in South America.

[j.c]

Lissa - I, for one, would love to see an exhibit of our ancient contraceptive devices, information booklets, Comstockery and letters which ladies wrote to one another, sharing tips on birth-control.

Any kind of exhibit about the daily grind and household life really appeals to me. I can only tour so many damn castles and great houses. Bring out the flapper’s perm machines!