# Why are we not using Biofuel? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 3, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560 "2015-11-03T22:35:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/1 "2015-11-03T22:35:42Z")
Why are we not using Biofuel we have this now!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek: yes now :eek::eek::eek: to power are homes, cars and airplanes and power stations? Biofuel like Corn,Yeast, Soybean, Vegetable oil, Algae, Animal waste, Sugar cane, Grass, dead tree branches and leaves, methane, dead trees so on. Why are we still using oil, coal and gas? Is it that fossil fuel and jet fuel cheaper and more fuel efficient than Biofuel? And that is why we are not using it? Do you think in 10 years from now may use Biofuel for cars and airplanes and power stations? I some countries seem to be more into Biofuel than the US why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/2 "2015-11-03T22:41:25Z")
Land used to produce biofuel can’t be used at the same time to produce food. Presumably, most of the time: (1) farmers can get more money from food crops than from biofuel crops; and (2) fuel produced from petroleum is cheaper for the consumer than biofuel. This may change in the future if petroleum becomes more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/3 "2015-11-03T22:44:18Z")
Biofuel has promise, but as I understand it, it uses more traditional fuel to create it then it replaces. Also requires a lot of water to grow the crops, which is obviously a problem in many places. > [@](#): > > A 2005 study suggested that, using current farming and production technology, it takes anywhere from 27 to 118 percent more energy to produce a gallon of biodiesel than the energy it contains . While technology may eventually narrow those ratios, the input-output energy ratio of modern biofuel production is a major drawback to its widespread use. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/4 "2015-11-03T23:32:57Z")
The future of biofuel is probably algae-based, but little work is being done in that field. Biofuels might also be a cost-effective way to handle waste streams. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/5 "2015-11-03T23:48:45Z")
The 3rd horse of the Apocalypse links the price of fuel to the price of food via the scale ‘it’ carries. Don’t touch the oil (bio-diesel) or the wine (ethanol), you can eat basic grains for the day if you work all day. And all that good stuff you know. In modern day we see the effect of bio-fuel raising food prices which makes perfect economic sense. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/6 "2015-11-04T02:41:32Z")
A local gas station (Somers Point, NJ) offers E85 gasohol and B20 diesel/biodiesel mix. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/7 "2015-11-04T02:51:48Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Land used to produce biofuel can’t be used at the same time to produce food. Presumably, most of the time: > (1) farmers can get more money from food crops than from biofuel crops; and > (2) fuel produced from petroleum is cheaper for the consumer than biofuel. > > This may change in the future if petroleum becomes more expensive. This isn’t entirely true. Biofuel can be made from byproducts. Any kind of plant husks, peels, etc can be turned into Biofuel. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/8 "2015-11-04T04:36:04Z")
I was under the impression we were using all the bio fuel we produce. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/9 "2015-11-04T04:47:32Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > This isn’t entirely true. Biofuel can be made from byproducts. Any kind of plant husks, peels, etc can be turned into Biofuel. But with different efficiencies. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/10 "2015-11-04T05:48:51Z")
Bush the Younger was very supportive of this sort of thing; and solar power. Maybe if his brother is elected there will be a renewed surge in renewables. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/11 "2015-11-04T06:21:37Z")
Biofuel is a shitty form of solar power. You plant some crops in a field. You have to either use land that has natural rainfall (“arable”) or pump in fresh water, which is a limited resource. You gotta somehow control weeds, either with insecticides or more expensive methods, you gotta fertilize it, run tractors over it, pay laborers to harvest it… All this, and only [3-6%](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetic_efficiency) of the energy that fell on the field becomes fuel. Right now, while we don’t have artificial plants, you can readily purchase 20% efficient solar panels (they are slightly more expensive but still less than a buck a watt), and then using [electrolysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water#Efficiency) and PEMs, you get 18% of the energy to hydrogen, and then using Sabatier, you can probably do a net 10%, which is better than plants. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/12 "2015-11-04T06:44:45Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Biofuel has promise, but as I understand it, it uses more traditional fuel to create it then it replaces. There’s no reason why this must be so, however (there’s a common misconception that thermodynamics won’t let you harvest more biofuel than you invest in tractor diesel harvesting it) ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/13 "2015-11-04T07:05:51Z")
Biofuel will never take off in the USA because we only use corn, the least efficient source, and the corn lobby is way too powerful to allow better crops like rice & sugar. That’s also why biofuel is most successful in places like Brazil (which is crop-rich but oil-poor) and has the potential to take hold in China or India, if those countries can ever get their shit together. > [@kanicbird](#): > > The 3rd horse of the Apocalypse links the price of fuel to the price of food via the scale ‘it’ carries. > > Don’t touch the oil (bio-diesel) or the wine (ethanol), you can eat basic grains for the day if you work all day. And all that good stuff you know. Ah, there’s the old **kanicbird** we know and love. I’ve missed you. :o ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/14 "2015-11-04T07:21:47Z")
It might have been someone else, but I’m pretty sure it was Neil deGrasse Tyson who explained that even if you covered the entire landmass of all of North America in corn fields (which obviously you can’t) you still would not even come close to meeting our energy needs. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/15 "2015-11-04T08:41:24Z")
I’m sure there is no one source of power that could alone meet the sum total of energy needs. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/16 "2015-11-04T10:56:21Z")
So the US is big on using corn for Biofuel and other countries are more into Yeast, Soybean, Vegetable oil, Algae, Animal waste so on? So people are lobby in US that Biofuel are not ethical as it should be used to feed poor hungry people? Where other countries are using other Biofuel that is why they are getting around it? ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/17 "2015-11-04T14:06:34Z")
conventional oil is cheaper. Likely to remain so for some time as well. When it isn’t, other forms of oil will become more popular. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/18 "2015-11-04T14:25:17Z")
My money would be on algae farms, probably fertilized by blackwater. But someone still needs to isolate the algae species which can be domesticated most efficiently. I am (unsupported statement) certain we can find one or ten which directly produce a fat or an oil we can use as fuel. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/19 "2015-11-04T15:24:26Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > I’m sure there is no one source of power that could alone meet the sum total of energy needs. Of course there is - solar + batteries can do it. Nuclear breeder reactors can do it (the conventional kind we have right now will run out of fuel in a few centuries. Thorium is a type of breeder reactor). Solar panels in space can do it, and you wouldn’t need batteries. Fusion can do it if it even is workable. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560/20 "2015-11-04T15:30:20Z")
I think what’s confusing you is that these are basically the energy sources (well, ultimately, matter is the energy source, but that’s nitpicking) but to actually run portable vehicles you need a way to store the power. You could synthesize fuel using energy from the above sources, that fuel would be hydrogen or methane or even methanol. (you can make pure synthetic gasoline or kerosene but each processing step costs you efficiency. Hydrogen is the most efficient but the most difficult to store) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-not-using-biofuel/736560.md?page=2)