# Why Are We the 'Least Democratic Country' (According to This Guy)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425 "2015-01-20T22:55:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/1 "2015-01-20T22:55:20Z")
Interesting story, democracy in the USA and UK. We actually have been locked in a kind of competition for over 200 years. Did you know that? Who is the most democratic, and who will accomplish what first. For example, did you know Great Britain abolished slavery before we did? Interesting. Anyways, that is why I was a little bothered by [this](https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090423083047AAYkufb) website. The subject matter doesn’t bother me, because I know the USA will never become part of the Commonwealth of Nations (anymore than they will become our 51st state–face it). But I was a little puzzled by the post by Rudolph Hucker. He writes: > [@](#): > > Because they would have difficulty filling the application form in plus they would be one of the least democratic countries in the Commonwealth. I understand the Americans-are-stupid part (probably from the way we seem to talk to them). But why does he think we are the least democratic? In the UK, they still have the House of Lords, which can delay passage of a bill for up to a year. It seems to me, for that reason alone, we are in fact _ **more** _ democratic than them. So why does he think we are the least democratic? :):):)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/2 "2015-01-20T23:00:40Z")
He’s a dumb-ass? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/3 "2015-01-20T23:07:00Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Anyways, that is why I was a little bothered by [this](https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090423083047AAYkufb) website. Are you serious? That “website” is Yahoo Answers. I wouldn’t let anything on that site bother you. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/4 "2015-01-20T23:54:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Who is the most democratic, and who will accomplish what first. For example, did you know Great Britain abolished slavery before we did? Interesting. Why yes, I did know that. 😛 It was in all the papers… > [@](#): > > I understand the Americans-are-stupid part (probably from the way we seem to talk to them). But why does he think we are the least democratic? Because he is trying to make a political point against the US it looks like. Basically, most people who reply to Yahoo! Answers are idiots, and it was a silly question in the first place with a lot of really stupid or silly answers (we won’t join because the US ‘want to be special’? :p). > [@](#): > > In the UK, they still have the House of Lords, which can delay passage of a bill for up to a year. It seems to me, for that reason alone, we are in fact more democratic than them. It all depends on how you define ‘democratic’. The [House of Lords](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords) has pretty limited and constrained powers…really, they are a check (a very limited check) on the House of Commons. The British parliamentary system is similar to the US system (in fact, we based a lot of ours on their system, which is unsurprising since we were British before the Revolutionary War ;))…I don’t think either are more or less ‘democratic’, just different. We aren’t in any sort of competition with the Brits to be The Most Democratic™. > [@](#): > > So why does he think we are the least democratic? Well, leaving aside the ‘he’s an idiot’ angle (or he’s a troll looking to fish for outraged Americans), my guess is he has some kind of political axe to grind against the US. ETA: BTW, the ‘best answer’ guy answered this 6 years ago… ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/5 "2015-01-21T00:10:01Z")
Ah, perhaps I’m daft, but the post ends with "Canada did participate in th " and I see nothing about slavery and no way to continue reading the rest of the post. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/6 "2015-01-21T02:14:50Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Why yes, I did know that. 😛 It was in all the papers… But it wasn’t reported on television. Why did the electronic media ignore this story? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/7 "2015-01-21T02:32:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But it wasn’t reported on television. Why did the electronic media ignore this story? Well, probably because the media leans Whig. It’s a huge conspiracy… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/8 "2015-01-21T02:34:06Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Ah, perhaps I’m daft, but the post ends with "Canada did participate in th " and I see nothing about slavery and no way to continue reading the rest of the post. 😕 Obviously the guy was suppressed while typing that by the Canadian cartel. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/9 "2015-01-21T02:40:46Z")
Yeah, Uganda is much more democratic than the US. \ ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/10 "2015-01-21T03:16:24Z")
The Electoral system, based on the states, is remarkably non-democratic. A voter in Wyoming has something like 30 times as much influence on the Presidential election as a voter in New York. The Senate, too, is non-democratic. ETA: Oops, that should have been “3” times, not “30” times. My error. Apologies. Britain, back in the day, had such things as “rotten boroughs” and other failings. “One voter, one vote” is an ideal that neither the U.S. nor Britain live up to absolutely, because of our history and origins. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/11 "2015-01-21T04:37:36Z")
It’s a ridiculous comment. The U.S. would be in the top 5 or so “most democratic” by any reasonable standard, were it ranked among the Commonwealth nations, and frankly trying to rank Canada, the U.K., the U.S., India and Australia on who is most democratic requires arbitrary criteria anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/12 "2015-01-21T05:28:42Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > He’s a dumb-ass? This gets my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/13 "2015-01-21T05:28:56Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The Electoral system, based on the states, is remarkably non-democratic. A voter in Wyoming has something like 30 times as much influence on the Presidential election as a voter in New York. The Senate, too, is non-democratic. ETA: Oops, that should have been “3” times, not “30” times. My error. Apologies. > > Britain, back in the day, had such things as “rotten boroughs” and other failings. “One voter, one vote” is an ideal that neither the U.S. nor Britain live up to absolutely, because of our history and origins. I wouldn’t call it “history and origins”. Democracy is stupid, hence why we live in a Republic. A “One voter, one vote” system, while probably not significantly different from what we have today, still raises the chances of the Tyranny of the Majority and reduces the ability of the majority of the electors to have done a proper job investigating all the candidates. We probably already have too much democracy in the American system, and are rubbing up against the tragedy of the commons. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/14 "2015-01-21T05:37:47Z")
Well, leaving aside the troll-angle and the fact that you can’t stack up countries on a scale of ‘democraticity’ when democracy has nearly as many meanings as there are democratic countries, the most charitable reading I can give the comment is that it’s inspired by the [recent study](http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746) arguing that in terms of political power, actual policy in the US is dictated by a wealthy minority rather than the democratic majority, making it into a kind of oligarchy. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/15 "2015-01-21T07:20:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But it wasn’t reported on television. Why did the electronic media ignore this story? > [@XT](#): > > Well, probably because the media leans Whig. It’s a huge conspiracy… This cracked me up. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/16 "2015-01-21T08:05:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s a ridiculous comment. The U.S. would be in the top 5 or so “most democratic” by any reasonable standard, were it ranked among the Commonwealth nations … The US is not a democracy at all, judged by the academic standards of Prof Martin Gilens and Prof Benjamin I Page: > **[Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746)** > > What in the World: A new report finds that an elite few dominate US policy, the human error behind South Korea's ferry tragedy, and Algeria's uneasy status quo election. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/17 "2015-01-21T09:20:17Z")
I’d argue that ‘abolishing slavery’, while a laudable act, isn’t inherently a democratic one. It’s liberal, it’s decent, sure, but it’s only democratic if it were abolished by a democratic state. As for the UK House of Lords, I am a fan of it (although I’d support certain reforms), but I would argue that the distinction here about democracy between the UK and the US is this: in the US, the Senate can block anything the House proposes. In the UK, the Lords can only delay for up to 13 months - the House that represents the people will always eventually get its way. So in that sense, I would argue the UK does pip the US in democracy. In other matters however, I’ll not comment. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/18 "2015-01-21T09:55:17Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > As for the UK House of Lords, I am a fan of it (although I’d support certain reforms), but I would argue that the distinction here about democracy between the UK and the US is this: in the US, the Senate can block anything the House proposes. In the UK, the Lords can only delay for up to 13 months - the House that represents the people will always eventually get its way. > > So in that sense, I would argue the UK does pip the US in democracy. In other matters however, I’ll not comment. The Senate was created so small less populated states would have a greater voice in passing federal legislation in the union. How is that at all equivalent to affording the privileged a greater voice in The House of Lords? That it is now essentially ineffectual only strengthens the case for disbanding it. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/19 "2015-01-21T11:01:26Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Well, leaving aside the troll-angle and the fact that you can’t stack up countries on a scale of ‘democraticity’ when democracy has nearly as many meanings as there are democratic countries, the most charitable reading I can give the comment is that it’s inspired by the [recent study](http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746) arguing that in terms of political power, actual policy in the US is dictated by a wealthy minority rather than the democratic majority, making it into a kind of oligarchy. Exactly, though one hardly needs a study to demonstrate the power of the corporatocracy and wealthy oligarchy. Call me devil’s advocate, but putting aside some of those commenters’ intentionally provocative anti-Americanism, I would posit that democracy in America is uniquely undermined by three significant factors (all three [are mentioned here](http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/214857-who-rules-america), normally a pretty conservative source): [ul] [li]Control of the political system by the wealthy and their corporate lobbyists, greatly exacerbated by the burgeoning “money is speech” meme being fostered by exactly that group. The study that you and another poster mentioned finds, to quote _The Hill_, “_that ordinary Americans have virtually no impact whatsoever on the making of national policy in our country. The analysts found that rich individuals and business-controlled interest groups largely shape policy outcomes in the United States_.”[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]One of the lowest voter turnout rates among industrialized countries. Again quoting the above article, “_America’s turnout rate places us near the bottom of industrialized democracies. More than 90 million eligible Americans did not vote in the presidential election of 2012 and more than 120 million did not vote in the midterm elections of 2010._” Comparative numbers for other countries can be found [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout).[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]Lack of political engagement by the lower economic sectors (exacerbated by a concerted effort by some factions to discourage voting by minorities and the poor). “_Electoral turnout in the United States is highly correlated with economic standing: The more affluent Americans vote in much higher proportion than the less affluent. A study by Ellen Shearer of the Medill School of Journalism at Northwestern found that 59 percent of 2012 voters earned $50,000 or more per year, compared to 39 percent of non-voters. Only 12 percent of non-voters earned more than $75,000, compared to 31 percent of voters._”[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425/20 "2015-01-21T11:09:24Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > I’d argue that ‘abolishing slavery’, while a laudable act, isn’t inherently a democratic one. It’s liberal … right. Is not torturing people also liberal? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-the-least-democratic-country-according-to-this-guy/710425.md?page=2)